October 19, 2008
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Yes, I am going to talk about the Abortion Issue
I have avoided this subject in my few years of blogging for many reasons. I don't know what you would call my blogging style, but it's definitely not serious and I don't usually take a firm stand on things.
The pro life vs. pro choice issue is one of the most controversial and emotional topics there is. The smart thing, if you want to keep friends, is to not even go there.
So why am I? Well, I was cruising around xanga land the other day and Dan had this post. His question was something along the lines of " Is it selfish to have a late term abortion if your life is in danger" In other words putting your life before your baby's. I found myself getting angry at some of the responses and even the question, so I decided to write my own blog about the subject.
Before I do though, I want to be very careful with what I say and I hope if you read and comment YOU will read the whole thing and you will choose your words carefully too.
Not surprising to anyone, I'm sure, I am pro choice. I have really thought about this issue and it's not something that is just black and white with me. It's a complicated, emotional, topic, as I said.
I have two children. I LOVED being pregnant with them. I have always wanted to be a mother. I honestly feel bad for men and women who can't get pregnant, that they can't experience what I felt was a true miracle. It was amazing to know, and eventually feel, a life growing inside me.
Many people are going to think " why pro choice then?" And I can understand why. The short answer is, bottom line, it's a personal CHOICE. I am not pro abortion, I am pro choice!
But I'm not here to convince you or sway you. I completely understand the other side. I know pro life people feel abortion is murder. If you feel something is murder, of COURSE your going to fight it. When I think something is morally wrong, I take a stand, ( not always on xanga) and I see nothing wrong with pro lifers being upset with some womens choices. I understand why they would want Roe VS. Wade overturned. If I put myself in the thought process of a pro - lifer I get it. I don't agree, but I REALLY understand.
What I don't like or understand is how SOME ( notice I said SOME) pro life people make blanket statements such as " you are not a good mother and are selfish if you put your life before your baby's life" in cases where someone might have to make that awful choice. I can't imagine a more horrible position to be in. I am sure most mothers who have to make a choice like that do not take it lightly.
Maybe they have other children at home, and they don't want them to lose their mother, maybe they are young themselves, twelve or thirteen, maybe the baby would end up with a good chance of dying anyway after birth and then two lives are lost. There are MANY scenarios. And I am sure it's NEVER easy!
A friend of mine had cancer. She has two children. She was told, she can't get pregnant due to the radiation/ Chemotherapy, and if she did, and tried to bring it to term, the baby would most likely die as would she. She agreed to be put into early menopause. However, she stated that if she were to become pregnant she would have an abortion.
One of our "friends" was horrified. And she told her so. Basically, she said " so you would kill your baby?" Even though this was a hypothetical situation, my friend was in tears. She was frustrated and hurt that someone would say that to her. The lack of compassion and understanding for what my friend had been through, how she would not want to leave her children who were born and living lives already, motherless, and the black and white lens in which the other friend was looking at the issue was offensive.
I do know people who have had abortions in their younger years. Some regret it and feel bad, some are glad that was an option for them.
I also know victims of rape and incest. Another horrifying scenario. Being impregnated by someone who violated you physically and emotionally? Terrifying. Now I am not saying a pro life person should make an exception in any of the examples I have put forth. Murder is murder, in their opinion. I understand how they think. However, when you act like people are just running around having thoughtless abortions, even in the above cases, it's insensitive and cruel.
Lets say some sick father raped his daughter and she became pregnant? I actually know a woman that happened to. She did terminate the pregnancy. She was 14. She had been molested by her father for years. She said if she had been forced to carry to term and give birth, she would have been damaged far worse than she already was. The whole situation, including the abortion, caused her unbearable pain. Nothing about it was selfish or easy.
All I am asking is that if your opinion differs, please use your words carefully, don't judge. If you want to share your views and information in a kind and thoughtful way, then I'll respect you. If you want to yell names like murderer, and selfish, and butcher, then I don't respect you at all.
Be sensitive when you are talking about such an emotional topic. I think the majority of women who have had and will have abortions, did so with thought, counsel, and even prayer. They are not horrible people, they are not selfish. I think that the majority of women who have had or will have abortions do not think they are committing murder, yet they probably have a heavy heart in making the choice to terminate their pregnancy. I can't imagine it being easy or anyone being cavalier about it.
So before you judge others and their heart and motivations, look at yourself and how you are coming off as a human being.
I for one am glad that people stillhave this option to choose, what is best for them, their families,their lives. But I will not be upset if you don't agree. Just do so respectfully please
Comments (226)
It is great reading your thoughts on the issue.
I'm pro-life, but I can see that there are shades of gray and different situations. And that when it comes to something like this, the decision is never easy. No one wants to be in an abortion clinic. The few exceptions that don't think of it or don't feel any pain in this situation are not the norm; most people have their souls deeply, deeply hurt because of this. The decision to take a life is the most difficult thing anyone can do. When someone is in trouble it's good to remain compassionate and empathetic.
Drug addicted folks often become pregnant and they passed a law to take the children away from such mothers who are drug addicted. The thing is they have nine months to often consider whether or not to quit their drug and the father of said child can only stop his own addiction as an example. Well I know I as a father of said child (three times) was an enabler and will carry this guilt throughout my life. We had two abortions and supposedly the final child was born and given up for adoption.....
It is sad that a lot of Pro Choice and Pro Life people think it is an easy choice. I've been there and would just let my experience stand on its own....
I really enjoyed your thoughts about the whole thing Laura. This is a very complicated and painful subject.
@TheTheologiansCafe - Thanks, hope you didn't mind the link
@LucyWrites - Thank you for your thoughtful comment. I really appreciate it.
@PPhilip - I am sorry you had to go through that.
@awish4you - Thank you, and thanks for commenting. It is not an easy subject, I felt brave going there ha ha.
I can understand there are situations where abortion is beneficial. What I find personally repulsive is when abortion is used as a common/repeated method of birth control. As for late term abortions, they are a horror of a whole other magnitude.
The older I get the more I understand the difficulty of choices like these. I grew up around a bunch of evangelicals who saw everything, except their own sins, in black and white. Good post.
Good post. I'm the mother of two beautiful, adored, wanted children. I enjoyed being pregnant, and (because I had difficulty getting pregnant the second time and had to seek help) empathize with those who can't have children. AND I'm pro-choice. I honor the opinion of those who disagree with me; all I ask is that they honor my opinion as well. This is one of life's most troubling issues, and there's no easy answer. You've expressed yourself clearly and respectfully, and I thank you for your words.
well said ...bravo :)
Nicely done, Laura.
@longtimelurker -I agree, abortion should NEVER be used as a method of birth control. However, people act like this is done all the time ( women having abortions as a birth control method. I just don't think that is the case. I know there are women who have had more than one abortion, but they were on birth control. No birth control is 100 percent. I just don't think it's as common as people believe ( the abortion as birth control thing.)
@IsaacRW - Thanks. Life is never balck and white, at least the way I see it.
@queenoscots - Thank you so much, it seems we feel pretty much the same.
@Jaz - Thank you
@transvestite_rabbit - Thanks : )
Thank you for brining it up! For people who want a link, I'm going to put one up. Abortions are at an all time low. They are rarely done beyond 21 weeks. Most people get them for reasons of poverty. People can fight poverty and cut down the number of abortions. The miscarriage rate is higher than the abortion rate (33% of all confirmed pregnancies). I don't understand why people don't fight things that cause miscarriages such as pollution instead.
http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html
@Isismoon - I didn't know pollution caused miscarriages. I did hear that abortion rates were at an all time low though.
@Isismoon - thanks for the link
Very well organized piece of writing, woman. Good one.
Laura I think you who say don't judge come down to hard on the pro lifers. They too have prayed and considered if is it worth putting their life on the line for this issue. They spend their time, money, name, suffer being called names like hater, hypocrite, etc for what they believe. You don't seem to have very much compassion for their revulsion of abortion. At least that is the impression I get. Legally it's not about abortion, choice, or life it's about rights and both sides got them. Unlike you I show partiality to no one.
@momofjenmatt - Here is an easy to read table about some of the things that cause miscarriages but arsenic and endocrine disruptors such as pesticides aren't listed as causing miscarriages but they do.
http://www.nrdc.org/water/drinking/fdrinkingwater.pdf
i believe it's a personal issue & not an easy decision to make but it should be a personal choice...
Great post and I agree with you.
Great post.
I'm pro-choice as well. I've seen too many bad things happen in this world not to be. I feel like most pro-life people have never been put into a truly bad situation and haven't had to make a tough call that they knew would change their life forever. If they had, it seems like they would have a little more...I don't know if 'respect' is the right word, but tolerance?...at the very least...for those who have had to make such a nightmarish choice.
Brave you are for going there with this post
That being said, I am pro-life. That being said, I also understand how there should be choice, I suppose. I could not ever imagine being raped and being forced to carry that child and birth that child. That being said, my sister has been trying for years and years and years to have a child and she cannot. She would gladly take that child that someone else does not want, and raise it as her own. I also suppose I understand that if I were pregnant and the doctor told me keeping my child would kill me, I would not know what to do. I have a child already at home, and if having the child I am pregnant with will leave her without a mother--I just don't know what I would do. I might hold onto the belief that God would make everything ok, and perhaps not.
I do understand how there are grey areas all around, but I am still pro-life.
Our stances on abortion are different. That having been said, I can tell that you have thought this out, and you make excellent points. There are definitely those who are pro-life that only hurt the cause with the way they act toward other people.
@kulamulla - Not all pro lifers are putting their lives on the line and I think I showed a lot of empathy for the other side.
@wwwCarey - thank you, good to see you on xanga.
@Isismoon - thanks, I'll check it out.
@wrytercatblue - Love when people agree with me ha ha
@stixandstonz - always nice to be agreed with
@filtered_sunlight - well, like I said to them it's murder, so in some ways I do understand, but yes, I am hopeful that people will at least think before they are so quick to speak.
@MorningAngel - I respect your belief. My point was really that, it's not always black and white. I am all for adoption and wish everyone who wanted to and was fit could be a mother. It has been the greatest thing I have ever done. And I would hope that anyone who choose to go full term but could not or would not care for their baby would give it up. However, life isn't always that simple. And it's not always as easy as some make it sound.
@MixedUpMale - Thanks. I wish their were no crazies on either side. As I said I wouldn't even try to make you or anyone else change what is a core value to them. I just want mutal respect. Thanks for giving it to me.
I just couldn't agree more!
@cindyjg - yay for people who agree with you!!!!
I really admire your willingness to disagree but understand the other side of the issue. So many people are too narrow-minded to admit something like that. And your call for everyone to be sensitive of others' feelings no matter what they believe is also admirable. Great post!
@saxy_grrl - Thank you so much. I really, really DO understand the other side. Nothing is solved with name calling and judgements.
:standing ovation: -- a well written entry! I have to agree, it's not always black and white and regardless of your position or mine, it can be expressed with compassion, respect and consideration. Hooray for momofjenmatt!
I understand about your friend with cancer doing it. And I understand rape victims and such doing it.
But anyone else, it shouldn't be allowed.
This is just my opinion.
@azcason - aww thanks
@LaLaLici0us - And I respect your opinion thanks for weighing in.
@kulamulla - please explain why they are more revolting than miscarriage due to pollution and why you want to make them illegal even though they are at an all time low. Is it a control issue?
I agree with you! Completely even!
I don't think it should be a form of birth control, I think people should be using effective contraceptive methods, but there are definitely situations where abortion is needed, in my opinion. Especially when the life or health of the mother is in jeopardy. I hope to never have to make that choice, because I know it is never an easy one!
I totally agree with you.
There is something I don't understand about why people say that abortion should be allowed in the cases of rape and incest? The thing I don't understand is this...Why kill the child for something he had no control over? More, why encourage a girl to go through something as emotionally traumatizing after all the emotional trauma she has already been through?
I am very pro-life. I very nearly was an aborted baby, and you have no idea how grateful I am of a certain sidewalk counselor who was there just at the right time to speak to my birthmother and was willing to adopt me into a stable loving family.
@kulamulla - I think you are showing partiality in your comment. She absolutely understood the feelings of those that are pro-life. I think her overall message was of tolerance and respect to both sides.
What I took away from this post was that opinion is given too harshly from both sides. That this issue is not just black and white; there are varying shades of gray and rather than insult the opposite views we should agree to disagree without passing judgment. Pro-lifers view it as there are two sets of rights at stake, and pro-choicers view it as only one-- there are two completely different view points, but compassion can be universal.
That was a lovely post. You came at it from the perfect angle-- showing respect for both sides. Job well done for tackling such a controversial, emotional topic.
Impressive entry, I salute you for putting your opinion forth, on such a subject, into such a well-rounded entry.
I mean the thought of terminating a pregnancy turns my stomach, but there are exceptions & there are too many naive people world. It really is sad how many closed minded people there are.
i agree with you. good entry
Nicely done. I'm of the opinion that if we want fewer abortions, we need a greater emphasis on contraception. The mind-boggling thing is, so many (but not all) abortion opponents also oppose easier access to the very things that would help prevent unwanted pregnancies.
You could not have said it better than this. Awesome post! =]
I really enjoyed your thoughts on this subject. You worded your thoughts very well. I am Pro-Choice, but not Pro-Abortion. Basically, it should be a women's right to chose what happens with her pregnancy of what she can control.
@Child_of_the_Earth - using it as a birth control method is something I think we all can agree on that is bad.
@Rchick2006 - Thank you : )
@Undercover_Librarian - I don't think people think they are Killing a child, therein lies the a big difference between pro life/ pro choice.
Maybe they think abortion is less tramatic than 9 mounths of pregnancy and giving birth.
@AirForceVirgin - Thank you so much and thank you for defending me
@The_Reading_Writer - Thank you, I appreciate your comment very much
@greenfishinstrippedworld - It is sad.
@gracehopper6 - Thank you
@Bad_Dogma - hey green guy wehre have you been? And you are SO right.
@UnVolume - Thank you very much
@mstigerfrogs - Thanks, I agree, obviously.
I do not think that someone who obviously has sex - Like on Juno - should get an abortion. I don't like that. Carry out the pregnancy and give the baby up for adoption if you don't like it. That's the only case where I am strong on the Pro- Life views.
I don't totally agree with you. But I love that you actually looked at the whole issue instead of seeing it as "black or white." If more people would do that maybe this nation could eventually find a way to reach a consensus on it. Or at least stop being so hateful and violent about it like "some" people seem to get at the mere mention of the topic.
i too am pro- choice and not pro-abortion. great post.
I've always seen myself as pro-life, but I have never thought that it was an easy thing or that it was something that everyone should/would agree with me on and I have never thought it was the government's place to decide that women would not have that choice. I have a friend who has a fine life, no worries, a solid boyfriend and everything is fine... gets pregnant twice because of her own (admitted) negligence and summarily aborts the child because she just doesn't feel like having a baby. That, to me, IS selfish, but even then I haven't judged her or ragged on her about it. It is her life, she will deal with the consequences, not me.
And that's what it kind of comes down to... trying to control other people's lives. My standards are for me, not you. 
Thanks for writing this.
I have to say, I am pro-life, but I also try to temper that with understanding. I realize there are people out there who really DON'T have a choice - much like your friend with cancer - or where even the 'choice' is a non-choice because it endangers the life of the mother. The issue I have with so much of the pro-choice propaganda and sentiment in this country (notice I do NOT say I have an issue with PEOPLE who are pro-choice) is that it seems like it is leaning towards pushing pregnancy into the realm of "oh, oops, so what" 'problems' - in other words, taking the focus away from the fact that there is another potential living being that is affected by the decision, and reinforcing this mentality that the only real issue is whether you 'want' a baby or not. I have issues with 'selfish' abortions, but I don't make the mistake of thinking that all abortions fall into that category.
I knew one girl who used abortion as birth control. 5 abortions later, she didn't even bat an eye at it which is scary. I have also been in a position to contemplate abortion/adoption/keeping a baby and I chose to keep my now-15 year old son. (Abortion was never an option for me--my parents tried to force it on me.)
I see every side and I really am just not comfortable with a government telling women all over the country what they can and can't do with a pregnancy. But, I'm Christian and active in a church where I'm sure most disagree with me. I really feel for me personally, this is a very confusing thing.
I loved your post...
@radicalramblings - I agree that people try to put people in 2 categories (pro-life, pro-choice) and there are many shades of gray in those 2 categories. Good point!
@kulamulla - I would disagree with you there. The post came across as hard on those who are closed minded on either side of the fence. The ones who say "my way is right and you're wrong" and don't see that there are always mitigating circumstances.
@MorningAngel - There are a lot of children out there waiting to be adopted but no one will touch. Why? Because they're not infants. Has your sister thought to adopt those children? The ones who really need the love because no one will take them as is? It doesn't always have to be an infant, you know.
@longtimelurker - Absolutely, I agree...it shouldn't be used as a form of birth control. But in that instance, we're treating the symptom and not the disease. Instead of fighting so hard to end abortion, why are we not fighting the NEED for it. Education and practice of safe sex, birth control methods do not endorse promiscuity. And considering the rise in teen pregnancies, perhaps it's time to get over that one and start teaching in school!
@Isismoon -
I don't want to make abortion illegal.
If you can't see the difference between abortion and miscarriage nothing I write will make it clear to you.
My first statement shows you don't know what your talking about.
My next statement declares you need light in your life.
Could it be an I.Q. issue?
@mstigerfrogs - well obviously, we would like all young people to abstain until they are emotionally ready etc.. But Juno was a movie, a goodone but a movie just the same. Every situation is different.
@radicalramblings - Thank you for understanding that I really do see the other side of the issue.
@coletteatsea - Thanks, yeah people seem to think they are the same thing, but they are not.
@rachelserine - It sounds like you are pro choice and that your choice would NOT be an abortion ( which is all I'm saying) a womans right to choose.
@TheWoobDog - Of course many, if not the majority of abortions are NOT the cause of Cancer or rape etc... And I could see why people think that is irrisponsible and or selfish etc... but even in those cases, unless you are in that persons shoes, you really can't judge. Also, if we make laws saying NO abortions for selfish people, who is going to decide who falls into that catagory. I still think it's a hard choice and that most women are not cavilir about it, but maybe I'm just fooling myself.
Your friend sounds like she has a LOT of problems and needs some counseling, as does anyone who keeps getting pregnant and then bopping off to a clinic. I have a feeling this will catch up with her in her later years, phsychologicaly, and it won't be good. I think that's sad.
@AirForceVirgin -
1,300,000 abortions per year in America, 3700 per day.
Laura used an example that is an exception, someone whose only choice was death either for her or her baby. How is the protester suppose to know her unfortunate circumstances? She looks just like the woman having an abortion because she doesn't want to leave her $100,000 year job. And would it be fair for a pro-lifer to write about abortion as if every abortion was done in the last month where the baby is partially delivered and then aborted or murdered depending on which side of the aisle one is on.
You say opinion is given to harshly and perhaps you are right but it comes with the territory so to speak. Abortion is not a beautiful subject.
@kulamulla - Of course opinion comes with the territory. HARSH opinion does not, however. No reason for anyone to use words that are demeaning to the other side of the issue- whatever their views may be.
@kulamulla - my examples may be the exception to the rule. But I bet your example of the $100,000 a year job is also. That is part of my point ( although my point was really to be respectful of others views) part of my point is YOU do not know anyones heart or situation or thought process. I am just saying, I wish SOME pro - life people would not assume things like " some rich lady didn't want a kid" or some girl just whore around and uses abortion as birth control. As I don't think that is the case.
Very well written and well thought out essay. I happen to strongly agree with you. I wouldn't begin to decide something this personal and important for anyone else.
Wow... you said everything so well. I can't imagine this making anyone upset, but I know it probably will (did), whatever... but its said very well and fairly. You believe much as I do. There are too many shades of grey for me to be against.... I'm pro choice, although personally I'm totally pro-life... Life is beautiful and to be cherished...but all of the examples you have given are ones I have thought of also... and as a mother, I can see where hard decisions would have to be made in some situations. I do not envy those persons.
Good job on going out on the limb there!!
@kulamulla - Well it's good you don't want to make it illegal but why the superior tone with me. That is uncalled for.
@kulamulla - A woman who makes $100,000 per year could easily hire a full time nanny and probably has a Mr. Mom at home. You are being very calloused and offensive. If that is what "light" in your life does then my dear you need more than light. You need to change religions and find a new church.
@RedHairedCelt - actually my sister has applied to be a foster parent. So yes, she has thought about those children.
I agree it must be a choice. It frustrates me that some equate pro-choice with pro-abortion. It's so, so important to recognize that we only walk in our own shoes.
@fratmom - Thanks, we're often on the same page
@bubblysox - Thanks, long time no see. I have not commented you Vice versa, but good to see you around. Non grey people bug me ha ha
@ordinarybutloud - I know, walk a mile, THAT"S ALL I'm SAYING
@momofjenmatt -
But Laura abortion is all about not wanting the kid to be born whether for this reason or that. Except for rape or life threatening situation for the mother abortion is about self first. Not wanting the kid. That's why they abort. Not wanting the baby is the norm for those who have abortion.
@RedHairedCelt -
Yes we have to keep an open mind but like they say let's not get so open minded that our brains fall out. Most abortions are because someone doesn't want a child at the moment. And in those cases it's a black and white issue for people. And I would think people on both sides are tired of the whole issue.
This subject is definitely a difficult one to discuss. I believe I agree with you on every point. I think that this issue is truly one that is not and cannot ever be a black and white issue. There are so many different factors and extenuating circumstances that to just flat out say yes or no without any reasoning is almost ridiculous. Thank you for posting this!
I am pro-life but I know there are shades of gray. I believe in the cases of rape, incest, molstation, or the mother will die is the exception. I will not judge a woman though that has had an abortion because it is not my place to judge them. I enjoyed reading your post. I thought you got your point accross without disrespecting anyone. I hope I did the same with my comment.
Great post on a difficult topic. I think that most folks do need to understand that defining oneself as Pro-Life or Pro-Choice doesn't mean you are defined by a black and white blanket statement. (Baby-killer vs. Saint) Being open minded, educating yourself about all angles, and understanding that it is an issue that does come up - always has, always will until the end of time - is crucial to even beginning to comprehend the grays that do come up in those situations.
I believe one of the things that many people forget is that when it comes to a person's body, it is tough to have another person dictate what they can and cannot do with it, especially when they have their own bodies to take care of and honor.
Sticking with the late term issue - I too would not want to wish that decision on ANYONE - and can only imagine how many people's personal beliefs may become seriously challenged if faced with that in their own lives. Realistically, it always comes down to a choice doesn't it?
I really love how gentle you were in this post. It was nice to see someone who said, 'Yes, these are my views, but I honestly and wholeheartedly respect the views of others because I can put myself in their shoes and you should too.' It's a nice change from the concrete declarations of opinion that completely knock all other beliefs cold.
~~Mary~~
I respect this blog and your attempts to understand both sides of this issue. I'm 100% pro-life, no doubt about it. However, I don't judge a woman who makes the decision to have an abortion. Hell, I'm living with one right now.
The way I see it, life starts at conception. Therefore, taking the life of a child while in the womb is nothing less than murder. I don't find any exceptions to this. I know, however, that when put under conditions of extreme emotional stress, a woman would have such a hard time making this decision. I understand their mindset, I really do. I just can't bring myself to ever agree with it.
I am very very very very much pro-life. Its not a choice, BUT I do on the other hand understand what your saying like with your friend with cancer. I mean....its tough to say what I would do. To me, sacrificing my life for my child would be a miracle in itself to be able to give that baby life, but then again, how is that baby going to feel when she or he doesn't have a mother? Its not IMPOSSIBLE to raise a child with just one parent, but I wouldn't recommend it? I don't mean that in a BAD way because I know LOTS AND LOTS of single parents that have raised wonderful children, but Moms are there for a tender touch, and love, and understanding. And dads teach, build, pour into. SO with all this being said... I do understand where your coming from. And I'll say the same, I REALLY get it, I understand, although I dont agree with it. Great post!
How many mothers wouldn't die for their children? Essentially, this woman would not die for her child.
Think of this scenario: your child has been sick, for a very long time. By giving up your life, you give your child a small chance to live. It's not a very big chance, but without you giving up your life, your child will not live. Of course, most mothers would give their lives up. It would be hard, but I believe most mothers would do anything to give their child a chance.
Not so for the woman you speak of. She would rather her child give their life for her than the other way around. Yes, the doctors said the baby would not have a good chance of surviving. But a bad chance is different than no chance at all. Would she be willing to give up one of the children she has? Probably not. Yet, she would give up this unborn child, kill that life, because it wouldn't have a good chance to live anyway. People forget the miracles happen.
If not for my mom, I would have been aborted. My husband wouldn't have me as his wife, my best friend would never have known me. All the lives I've touched wouldn't be. I don't understand how you can choose to end a life. Commit murder. I'm sure it isn't an easy thing to do- just like not stealing and not commiting adultery is hard to do. Sometimes.
I have compassion. Many women don't realize the monumentous thing they have done, the murder they have commited until it is too late. They live with guilt for life. They often speak of a hole that never fills. I have read and heard testimony after testimony to this.
It not only takes from the child their right to live, it has a very good chance of emotionally damaging the mother. What about the men? I have heard so many sad stories of men who would have loved to held their children, but they had no choice. One half of them, gone, without any say.
Murder doesn't help, I just don't believe that. And I believe the taking of another life, another human being, is just that. I don't hate anyone who's had an abortion, or think they are a monster. It's not about that at all. I feel sadness, an aching sadness, for these women who didn't seem to realize what they had done. For the children that would have had a chance to live, but since they had no voice or choice, did not get that opportunity. We care so much about the mother's right with her body, we forget that there is a child in there who wouldn't want to die. I mean, if a baby is born, then killed, it's murder. If those babies were to be let to grow, then they would be born.
And, ultimately, how could a mother choose her own life over her childs? Even in extreme cases, such as these, how can you choose your own life? How can you let a fourteen year old murder, and tell her what was done to her was horrible, but killing a child makes it tolerable? How will she feel when she holds her other kids- assuming she can have children, since abortions have the chance of ruining someone's ability to concieve again.
I do respect everyone has their own opinion. I just can't say murdering a baby is ok though... no matter how I look at it. I hope I am never put in a situation to test it.. and I feel very badly for anyone who is. I just hope they really think about the child more than themselves.
Like many of you, what bothers me is not that people have strong opinions on the issue of abortion. I have strong opinions on it too, though those opinions are probably not what anyone would characterize as being pro-choice or pro-life in the inane senses those terms are used to frame the debate over the matter.
What bothers me is the lack of compassion I see from both pro-choice and pro-life individuals when an individual makes a very difficult decision to either carry a dangerous pregnancy to term or a very difficult decision to end a dangerous pregnancy, respectively. Those difficult choices are often called stupid, immoral, or irresponsible. The people who make them are often labeled in the same ways.
It isn't just abortion that's tragic, but also the way we so frequently do not treat each other with love in the midst of that tragedy.
Well said
I agree with you. People who think that it's selfish to get an abortion are being completely ridiculous.
I don't feel qualified to speak on the subject until I have been put in a situation where I have to make a decision like that. (And I truly wish that no one has to ever be in a situation like that, but this world is a harsh place.)
That said, I'm glad you wrote this and showed some tolerance for the other side. It's something that a lot of people don't seem able to do.
Pro choice is ftw.
I agree with you very much. I think abortion is an ugly thing but it is also a personal thing and there are many different reasons and scenarios. The two cases you said are actually good reasons to have an abortion I think, even though there are a lot of not good reasons out there as well. Good post.
Using words like "pro-choice," "pro-abortion," and, "pro-life," just makes it harder to talk about abortion. These terms are so overused that they now seem to have liquid definitions which are slightly -- and in some cases grossly -- different for every individual who uses them.
I believe that an individual should be allowed to choose whether or not to rob a bank, or kill a dog, or burn your house down, or abort a baby. But I also believe that every choice has a consequence. Its easy to be pro-choice. What's hard is to say whether or not abortion should be legal. Semantics aside, that is the real issue.
I confess, I am hesitant to side for or against abortion in any absolute way. I'd much rather seek a compromise. If I had to choose I would say that I think that there can definitely be situations in which abortion is the best action to take. However, I would like to submit a very brief argument against the "pro-choice" stance:
In the United States it is illegal to murder. You have a stalker who has threatened to kill you if you try to get him arrested or caught. He also has told you that he might rape or kill you one day when you least expect it. You have moved many times but the stalker follows you. You think that your only options are to commit suicide, to kill the stalker, or to continue to live in fear of the stalker. You don't like any of these options, but you decide that killing the stalker is your best one. You kill the stalker, and are discovered and arrested by the police. In court you tell the judge your story, but you have no proof and are sentenced guilty.
Should you have the right to choose? Why not? Should you have the right to murder this man just because you are stuck in a bad situation with no good options?
I'm sure that there are many flaws with this example. I just came up with it now. I'm just trying to broaden the dialogue and offer some perspective, because I think that this is an important issue to talk about, and I'm glad you have brought it up.
I DO know someone who used abortion as a form of birth control. She didn't want the hassle, so she aborted. I also know someone who had an abortion, and struggles with the thought today. I also believe that in cases of rape, incest, or physical harm to the mother, that there is nothing wrong with an abortion.
I could never have an abortion. It's just not in my value system. However, I will NOT condemn anyone for making a choice like that (although, I will judge if it's done just because you don't want to face the consequences of your actions). I'm not God, and it's not my place.
...thou has covered me in my mother's womb. I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: - Psalm 139:12b-13a
I don't want anyone to agree with me. I just want them to agree with God.
This was so wonderfully well-written, and it couldn't have been said better. Another thing I think about in cases of rape or incest is the issue regarding how you tell the baby where they came from. Would you like growing up knowing that you were born because your mother was raped? How do you tell a child that?! It would be awful. Just as awful would be if the child lived, but was also the cause of his own mother's death because her body couldn't handle it and abortion wasn't an option. How could you ever put that type of burden on a child? Again, AMAZING post.
@forsaken_ficus - If abortion was made illegal, think of this way: A mother that wants an abortion, for whatever reason--good or bad, she is going to have one. If abortion is illegal, she has no place to go and is forced to resort to her own methods. These methods could work, they could kill her, or she could end up damaging the fetus so that when it's born it lives a life with very little quality. Because really, regardless of reason, a woman that wants an abortion is going to make sure she has one. The least we can do is make a safe way possible for her.
I am not FOR abortion (I could never do it), but I would never be so bold as to think I know what every situation is, or that I know what's it's like to be put in that situation. That's why making abortion illegal is so tough. It's personal.
I'm not even going to read the whole post. That "The short answer is, bottom line, it's a personal CHOICE." pissed me off. Know why?
It's a person's choice to be a parent before they drop their pants. If they didn't want to be parents, they should have kept 'em hitched high and buttoned, the pants, that is.
Parenthood, like said, IS a choice, until you are pregnant. And when you are pregnant, it's not your choice anymore. Do you understand where I'm going with this? Maybe? Look. When a person murders another person they're put on trial for murder. That "fetus" is a PERSON too. As soon as it starts developing it is a HUMAN. When a person shoots/stabs/etc. a pregnant woman and she dies, he is charged with the murder of two humans.
It is not the mother's place to say "Well, I don't want my baby to live, let's kill it". That's equivalent to you saying "Well I don't like my friend Jane anymore, and she's really taking up too much of my time. I think I'm just gonna get rid of her real quick." *Kaploink* You get a vacuum and suck her brain out of her head. Just like in abortion. Yes. It's that nasty.
You see, babies start forming arms and legs within the first 2 months of the pregnancy. And generally, most abortions can't take place until the mother is pregnant four months. So, you can't say it's a fetus, or whatever, it IS a baby. It's a BABY from the moment she gets pregnant with it, not some blob of jellied cells floating around in your belly.
I think this is the saddest society to live in these days. Where PETA can get a man thrown in prison ten years for abusing a dog, but we kill babies on a regular basis, without even really thinking about it.
People say we've lost too many soldiers in the war, well you know what? They lived. They lived their lives, they made that choice to go into the military, and they sacrificed their lives for their country. It was their decision to join the military. It was not a babies decision to be put in some woman's belly, who doesn't even want him or her. That woman has no right to take that child's life.
Where I was going with the military comparison was that we've lost thousands of soldiers- yes. But we've lost 93million+ babies to abortion. They didn't sign up to be put in that woman's belly knowing they'd more than likely be dead before their lives began.
Just my thoughts.
-S.
@kulamulla - That is simplifying it. If it were ALL about not wanting a baby everyone would just put the baby up for adoption. It's about their body, giving birth, emotional trauma and a host of other things. I am not advocating abortion, ALL I really said was people need to be more UNDERSTANDING and less judgmental of the other side. Nothing I or anyone else says here is going to make you pro choice. Nor should it. I am just asking that you and others think about the " real" women who do make that choice and dnot judge them so strongly.
@TheCheshireGrins - You are very welcome and thanks for commenting. And agreeing : wink;
@mini_dachshund_lover - I enjoyed your comment very much and thought it was VERY respectful
@mswhitney - pretty much yes, because even when it was illegal women did it anyway.
@two_days_until_forever - Thank you, I tried VERY hard to be honest and hoped my feelings would come across as genuine.
@literateand_stylishx - And you shouldn't. People need to stand by their convictions and beliefs. That's what gives you character and makes you a good human being. Thank you so much for your comment.
@Gabriela_loves_mommy - Thanks, and as I said I wasn't trying to sway anyone, I just wanted people to really TRY and see the other side instead of asumming the women having the abortion is a selfish, whatever.
@silkenbutterfly - First the woman I described DID NOT have an abortion, what she said was she " probably" would. Second, she does not feel a fetus is a CHILD, fundamental difference. Third, she would die for her LIVE children as I said. She had two YOUNG kids at home who need a mother. Again, this is what upsets me. It's not ALL "oh, she wouldn't die for her child, she's selfish." Your not even trying to see the way she and others THINK about it. And in my example, the " friend" should have kept her mouth shut, since the cancer friend didn't even have an abortion. There are ways to say things that are 100 times more sensitive. I'm sorry but there is a HUGE difference between her ( my friend) and someone who says they would go out and kill someone for the hell of it. And I WOULD die for my kids, but I can't 100% honestly say what I would do if i was put in a horrible situation like my friend had the potential to be in. I don't judge unless i am in someones shoes.
As far as men go, I told my son if you play you pay. He has no choice in what the woman decides to do, because it will always be the womens choice. Until men can get pregnant. Law or no law. Men know they take the risk of being a father or having the fetus aborted when they have sex, so I guess they should have a good idea of who they are sleeping with.
@JalapenoCol - I couldn't have said it better myself!!!! Exactly.
@hairball378 - Thank you
@fueledbysurveys - well i'm not sure that's what I said exactly. I said I wanted to and do respect all opinions.
This was very thoughtfully written and I enjoyed reading it. I am pro-choice as well. The thing about this controversial topic that gets me mad is that I don't think men should have any say in a woman's personal choice ( I'm not a feminist!). I know that's kind of extreme of me but that's my point of view. Men don't have to carry a child around for 9 months. Women do the hard work. It should solely be our personal choice, and as you rightly said, a very hard personal choice.
@momofjenmatt - How sad. We should certainly not say anyone is having a baby anymore, I believe, if it gives off the wrong connotation. If an unborn fetus is not a baby, we should say someone is growing a fetus inside of them. I wonder why we don't say it this way... if we're going to take the humanity out of having a baby for those who are having abortions, we should simply call it "growing a fetus" rather than having a baby. At what point does the fetus gain the status of "baby" and "human being" rather than... a fetus which may or may not in the future become a baby and have rights? I'm truly curious when the fetus becomes a child in people's minds. I'm sure that women who have miscarriages then are overreacting as well, they haven't lost a baby. Only a fetus which wasn't a baby at all. Not even human. Why the fuss? If abortion is ok, certainly miscarriages musn't be that bad. Both mean the fetus is... gone. Not dead, since the fetus was never alive.
Of course, I don't feel this way, and think that miscarriages are devastating precisely because they are a baby. I don't make a distinction, because that "fetus" or whatever it is your friend would call the baby would live and breathe one day. I can't see any way that abortion doesn't equal murdering another human being.
@silkenbutterfly - I didn't write this post to argue abortion vs.not abortion. I don't want to change your mind. I respect your opinion. I wrote this post so people could possibly gain some perspective of another view point, and I asked that others show compassion and understanding towards others who share a different perspective. That's all.
"I am not pro abortion, I am pro choice!"
Nicely said. This wording is more effective than what I usually spout out, at least : /
@SpAnKyLiCiOuS - well men really don't have a say so, because a woman is going to do what she wants with her body regardless. Legal or not.
@IfonEarth - The world can be a harsh place.
@Red_foxes_rock - well it's a shame you didn't read the whole thing to give what I said context. But whatever. I read everything you wrote and respect your views. I wasn't debating the abortion issue, which you may have gotten if you read the whole thing. I was calling for more compassion on the other side of the issues. People that are raped are not " pulling their pants down". I think you should always give someone the courtesy of reading an entire post before you judge. Fourth months is not in the first trimester, so you are incorrect.
@PumpkinLettuce - thank you
@IfonEarth - I agree, unless you walk in someones shoes your not really qualified to judge them
@fading_rainbows - I don't like the word good, but maybe understand
able.
@apennieformythoughts - I'm not God either, what a coincidence
@chiltons99 - I respect your thoughts. I don't want you to agree with me either, just respect someone who thinks different than you, even if you think they are VERY wrong.
thank you for this thoughtful post that touches on both sides of this touchy issue. although i am pro-life and do not agree with everything you said, i completely understand what you are saying about some pro-lifers being insensitive...and i appreciate the tone in which you worded everything.
i have tried to place myself in the shoes of those in unspeakable situations such as rape and incest, but i know that unless i went through it myself, it is hard to truly empathize. only a very small percentage of abortions are due to these causes, but even the abortions themselves are very traumatic to go through after the fact. for myself, you are right--i see it as murder, so it is not a "to each their own" thing to me--i could never have one myself, no matter the situation...but that doesn't mean i view myself as a better person, or those who do have abortions as less of one either.
just one note, for those in general:
don't be too hard on pro-lifers, just as you ask them not to be so judgmental on those who contemplate abortions or have them.
@Shopgirl0393 - Thank you for understanding what I was trying to say here. I would not want you to change your mind and be pro choice. That's the thing. You can't and should not compromise your value system. You should be sad and maybe even outraged that abortion is legal. But I am talking about showing respect and understanding to your fellow human being who does not see it as murder and is often put in a place where they feel there is NO choice. You don't have to agree, just be respectful and try not to judge. ( I meant YOU as in general) Some people are not getting what I am saying here, so thanks for being smart.
@momofjenmatt - I haven't disrespected anyone. I posted a truthful Word from God. It's not me pro-choicers think differently from...it's God.
i definitely agree with you completely. i feel like for a lot of people it is very difficult not to judge since most care out some sort of judgment on anything and everything. the ones that bother me are the ones that force their opinions on you (*not just about this issue). I guess what gets me is that America is like the melting pot of all sorts of people, beliefs, religion, etc and yet people can't seem to be tolerant of each other views.
I think this is an issue that's going to be continue to come up
@chiltons99 - I didn't say you disrespected anyone. I meant that was the point of the post. Never mind. thanks for the comment
@sl13l2l2j - all I'm asking for is a little tolerance, I opened a big can of worms here. Yes, we don't all believe the same thing, some of us need to GET that.
@momofjenmatt - Yeah...I got that!
Your thoughts are exceptionally well written. I agree with you100%. 'One of our "friends" was horrified. And she told her so. Basically, she said " so you would kill your baby?" ' That part particularly moved me. I absolutely hate it when pro-life people immediately start verbally harassing others without stopping to think from their perspective. Thank you so much!
great post! i was happy to read about this topic with a clear and nonjudgemental point of view. thats pretty rare.
I am prolife except in instances where your life is in danger or in the case of rape or incest. I think states - because it is a state right - should help promote adoption more.
Hey, I saw your comment, and I wanted to stop by. I really appreciate your stance, and I agree with you. You've pointed out the grey area, in what a lot of people see as black and white. Thank you for doing that. I admire your eloquence and sensitivity, in approaching a difficult subject.
Oh, and I've had a few negative (to say the least) responses; there are quite a few tangents that go off in directions that I'm surprised at. I don't expect people to agree, because it's such a tough topic--and I am not surprised at some of the more fervently appalled responses.
I'm with you all the way. You made many great points and chose some sticky scenarios to really bring the point home. I respect you for respecting that people will disagree, I'm glad that there are still people who can make an intelligent "argument" for what they believe in. Thank you for writing this, I hope many people read this and walk away with more of an understanding of people's feelings and choices. Maybe they'll accept the ability to agree to disagree.
@curiousobsession - Your very welcome and thank you for the compliment
@lauraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa - Thank you. My name is Lauraaaaaaa too. Well, laura at least.
@heykiddoesurveys - Adoption is a wonderful thing. I wish more poor African American women would consider it. I work with troubled youth and 95 % of our African American kids are dads, sometimes with two or three and no one is really supporting the babies, except the tax payers. Then again many White couples don't want African American babies, so maybe that's why so many keep theres. Or it could be a cultural thing.
@Blue__Summer - Oh, not me. I bet you get tons of crazies. A lot more than me ha ha. Thank you though. I am waiting for xanga to put up the other side. Let the games begin.
@TiRocKiinPiinK - Thanks for your intelligent comment. I am actually surprised ( not that your intelligent, because i don't even know you). I just expected a lot more kooks or dumb people, and I got a lot of smart ones ha ha.
-clap clap-
Beautifully put!!
@kulamulla - I don't think we read the same post. She showed a pretty good deal of tact, and kept her disagreements with pro-lifers very civil!
To the poster: Thank you for expressing your opinions in a respectful manner.
@Red_foxes_rock - You live in one hell of a perfect world.
Come to the hood sometime, though.
Where women can't afford birth control.
Where sex is expected, demanded, and forced.
Where children who are the result of no birth control and no abortion grow up resented and know it.
Where an abortion takes place in someone's bathroom.
You're only seeing the issue from your side.
There's hundreds of others to investigate.
I am pro-life, but I agree on you with what you are saying. While I think abortion is immoral, that does not mean that I would look at every person in every situation who had an abortion in the same way. This is a mistake some people make, they think "well this is immoral" and they think "so therefore this person is immoral"
good post, this is a sensitive issue, and while I do believe that abortion is murder, I don't by any means think that every woman who has had or has considered abortion is a terrible person
Exaaaaaaaaaaaaactly. i couldn't agreee moreee either : )
In one of my blogs, I have a video of Sarah Palin talking about rape victims and how they should still proceed to have the baby.
it's just ridiculous.
i don't think she realizes the effects of rape's trauma on the body of the mother-to-be. i don't think she realizes the fact that teen pregnancy changes lives and prevents people from living their lives. to make someone who was a victim of rape suffer for their entire life is absolutely ridiculous.
she also talks about victims of incest and that they should keep their baby. once again.. does she not realize the abnormalities that come with this! man i don't even get it!
Great post. :applause:
I couldn't agree more. I got pregnant when I was 17, so of course I had people, even family members trying to convince me to get an abortion. I thought about it, and I really didn't know what to do. No decision I had ever made in my life added up to that. I decided to keep her, she's 4.5 months old now, and it's the best decision I've ever made... But I can still understand why someone would want an abortion, and having been faced with the decision myself I know how hard it is... It shouldn't be anyone's choice but the mother's.
Now this was an extremely well written post about abortion.
I love how even though you presented your opinion, you made sure people knew that you understood both sides of the argument. This is the correct way to present your views on a controversial topic.
Props.
Thanks for sharing this... It's interesting to hear others opinion of this topic..
Abortion is absolutely not a black and white sort of thing.. It's so complicated and probably will remain a subject that will not be rationalized by laws or anything...Maybe not ever...
I'm along the lines with you.
@tsukitaiyo - thank you
@Sonofabiscuitbox - thanks for having my back and for the compliment
@big_fat_stupid_ugly_seal - thank you and that's all I am asking for is some compassion and non judgment
@nesva - I don't think she really cares or wants to care, she does not seem to be very empathetic, which is one of the many reasons i am voting Obama
@spectraredz - thanks so much
@sssurveyyy - Good luck with your baby, my son's 18 year old friend had a son, he is almost a year, it's been hard, but I think she is happy with her choice.
@saytebyo - thanks, too bad not everyone thinks so, oh well...
@Kayleigh1014 - no, it's too much of a hot topic, there will never be a true meeting of the minds
@jasquared - thanks
that was amazing
dont judge without knowing anything about the reasons why
I also dislike it when people think if we go more into stem cell research there will just be an abortion bank where women can get pregnant, abort, and get money for the fetus that they gave. That is a weak argument to me.
Thoughtful posts, I enjoyed reading it.
Some of the things brought up is people who don't like the idea of using abortion as a birth control method. I'd like to know how often this actually happens, it doesn't sound like something that is all that common, so if we had a good statistic on that, it'd be easier to talk about that as a serious issue.
Anyway, I'm pro-choice and what gets me the most is when people say you're selfish or you want to kill your baby, like you're some monster. There are circumstances that need to be taken into consideration. I'm not pro killing babies, I'm just pro choice.
Well written. I agree that ppl should be accepting of others view on this and not get all inflamitory. Just because it violates my morals does not give me the right to impose those morals on others or judge their circumstances. And circumstances do arise where woman do need the choice to be theirs and theirs alone without legal reprocussion. I have heard a lot about late term abortion lately that sickens and saddens me and I feel that in a perfect world those would NEVER have to be an option. But sadly we don't live in a perfect world . . .
I have actually taken the topic of abortion and addressed every issue used by pro-choice supporters. Please feel free to read through my posts starting from September 27th to the present. I offer a biological/physiological, logical, political, and conditional perspective. I leave my faith out of it. I hope you (and anyone else interested) will take the time to read through it.
http://www.xanga.com/Raising_Godly_Kiddos
This is a really good post. I like the way you have wrote about this issue rather than the other people who have and are feautured. I am against abortion, however I do understand your view. As one who often advertises this issue, I have stopped and viewed both sides completely. I have met many people who are fighting on both ends, and I know what all these stances mean. I know this subject is sensitive, I on the other hand have my own opinions as everyone else does. My main stand point is against those who end an innocent life just because they needed a quick alternative to birth control. I even once saw I girl trying her hardest to kill the baby herself because she didn't want to be pregnant so she could continue sleeping around without being judged, Oh I was rather shocked and appauled by her doing. Its sad. And clearly from knowing that I'm sure you can understand why I am so against it.
@mi1kandcerea1 - Thank you
@awokenfatality - OMG. don't even send me there!!!!!! Who would do that to themselves?????? People must think we women are a bunch of amoral sickos
@Frodoholic - well, the people that are saying that are saying they know someone who does that. However, to get a true study, you would have to survey honest woman who did that ( gross) or see if these woman actually tried to not get pregnant, did and then had more than one abortion in their lives. Which would not exactly be using abortion as birth control I doubt women are like : I'm on the pill" " We use condoms" or " Oh I just abort when I get pregnant" I can say i have never heard that in my 48 years of life.
@exquisite_christine - I think late term abortions are very rare and yes, very, very sad.
@Raising_Godly_Kiddos - I would love to as soon as I'm off the front page and can answer all these comments : )
@XBulletProofGlowX - first our young people clearly need to be educated and not just sex ed. But education about love and self esteem and responsibilitity, that would be step one.
Everyone wants to have a choice. Everyone wants to make their own decision and do what THEY want to do, but thats why laws were put into effect. b/c sometimes the things that we want to do is not always the best thing. Example:Driving intoxicated. Some people might argue that they should have the right to CHOOSE if they want to drive drunk or not...that it shouldn't be anyone elses choice, but we all now driving intoxicated isn't really a Great choice. I don't think that having an abortion is either. In some of the cases you were speaking of like rape, or physical ailments...thats a whole different situation, but casually having sex, and casually having abortions is not okay in my book.
Yes, I do believe that women should have the rights to abort if they were diagnosed with illness or raped by men.
But some women abort because it was a 'mistake', they didn't plan for it and stuff. There's many business women in the world and they tend to not want to have children because it would be 'blocking' their path towards success. They would choose to murder their children if they are 'accidentally' pregnant, so that they could continue their life as business women.
That's pretty irresponsible of them.
I have this debate before in one of my class and I felt that yes, women should have the rights to abort, but, if the choice was not because of illness and rape or maybe other reasons, then they should NOT abort.
If one do not plan to have a child in the first place, then they should have use contraceptive methods and not choose to murder the innocent child when the woman is pregnant.
Thank you for this blog. I appreciate you sharing these thoughts. I completely agree too.. Being pro-choice does NOT mean we support abortions. We just want the choice to be available for those who really need it.
I just would like to congratulate you on not only writing a fantastic post, but also accomplishing your goal of being understanding of both sides. Your responses to negative comments, including ones that admitted they didn't even read your post before judging your stance, were graceful and mature. It is incredibly refreshing to see someone so civil and level headed. The lack of fuss and temper really helps your point shine bright and clear. I sincerely hope that Xangans take a few tips from your positive example!
My thoughts exactly. I wish more people could discuss abortion in a civil manner without resorting to calling the prospective mother a murderer.
I do, very much, agree with you. Although, I'm pro-life, abortion is still inevitable in some delicate cases. Very well written!
pro-choice, anti-abortion is the way to go, i agree. mercy and grace to both sides of the placenta, gotta meet in the middle (the spiral arteries?) as usual for the best results. though often poor, better than either side and better than nothing
Great post, you expressed your Pro-Choice position in an intelligent, genuine, thoughtful, and compelling way.
~1~
It's funny how some Pro-Lifers are also supporters of the War in Iraq and capital punishment. I wonder if they see the irony.
@coolmonkey - not sure, but I have
@Anthony_chosen - thank you
@DaMoon - thanks for the input.
@icapillas - thank you SO much
@tjbruin00 - it's just too emotional, so I guess it's too hard for a lot of people
@beachblondie711 - Wow, thank you SO much. Your not one of my relatives are you? Kidding. I just usually don't get such complimentary comments from strangers. Thanks again.
you are my new hero. awesome post!
<3
@Helena1600 - As it stands right now it is legal to have an abortion, so the Supreme Court of the US. does not feel it is the same as drunk driving. So it is the womens legal choice right now.
@saltcoated - well first, contraceptive does not always work and I know MANY successful women who got pregnant by accident and did not terminate the pregnancy and would never think of that. I think that is the misconception, that a bunch of selfish power hungry women are out having abortions. That is just not the case
@Faith14 - thank you for your thoughtful comment.
@dead_poetic009xx - AWWW, thanks
Banning abortion is just wrong period. I can't believe people in this day and age still feel that government should still make personal choices for a woman. Unbelievable. Maybe we should take away a woman's right to vote as well.
RobRoy
Organic Grog
Personally, I think that being "pro-'choice'" is being "pro-abortion", simply because of this:
Why Do We Make the Baby Suffer the Consequences for peoples' stupid choices?
Secondly, explain how abortion is nationally necessary and needed to be protected for cases rape and incest, when they account less than 1% of all performed abortions?
See this article: Abortion = Selfishness - http://www.xanga.com/JandJinJapan/641784393/item.html
You and I have very similar thoughts on the subject. Very well done.
"I know pro life people feel abortion
is murder. If you feel something is murder, of COURSE your going to
fight it. When I think something is morally wrong, I take a stand, (
not always on xanga) and I see nothing wrong with pro lifers being
upset with some womens choices. I understand why they would want Roe
VS. Wade overturned. If I put myself in the thought process of a pro -
lifer I get it. I don't agree, but I REALLY understand."
thank you thank you thank you thank you. None of my pro-choice friends can see this. None of them understand why I loathe abortion. None of them will consider what you've said. Thank you.
Well, abortion is not a good way to eliminate the mess.
I am pro-life, and I agree with a lot of your points, but not all. I can't respond to this without getting into my faith, so if you continue to read this - you are warned.
First, my heart goes out to anyone who thinks an abortion is the only option. It is hard for me to understand how they can come to that conclusion, because I have never been there myself. If there is a crisis pregnancy center near you, PLEASE check it out. I know they are free where I live. Please, please please, check it out, first.
I do equate an abortion as murder in all cases except to protect a mother's life, and the chances of that are so low, I won’t even comment, except what mother would want her baby to die so that she could live? No mother I know.
So does that mean I equate those who have had abortions as "murderers"? Well, first you need to understand my perspective from my faith. I believe the Ten Commandments of the Bible, and when it says, "Though shalt not kill" I believe it. However, upon a further study of what the Bible says as a whole you begin to understand that this is not just talking about killing physically, but in your mind. For instance, hate, cruelty, harshness, looks that kill, all these are also equated with murder. So by calling someone who has an abortion a murder is a little hypocritical, because well, I am guilty of murder too, according to the Bible.
So, now what? He who is without blame cast the first stone. Judge carefully. Judge the action, not the person. Love the person, hate the sin.
Too many of my fellow brothers and sister in Christ, get this wrong, and that is how we push others away, when we are supposed to be drawing them closer.
Thanks for your honesty, please respect mine.
Very good writing. I personally am pro-choice, like you, and I agree whole-heartedly with everything you've said. One thing I would like to add is that pro-choice is not anti-life, which I think a lot of pro-lifers get confused with. I don't think abortion is necessarily right in all scenarios (eg. it would be selfish to abort if the foetus is not of the preferred gender) but for some cases it is necessary. One way or another, a woman who has her heart set on an abortion will get an abortion, whether it's safely in a hospital or with a coathanger at home.
Good job! I couldn't have said it better myself. I think people really need to chill out and be more sensitive on the issue. There is a statistic somewhere (too lazy to dig it out but I swear I read it in school) that Catholic women have an exponential number more abortions than non Catholics and often they are the most vocal outcriers against the abortion issue.
Just a thought. Marvelous work though.
i am thoroughly amazed. you are one of the most reasonable Xangans i've encountered on this subject and this post was extremely well written.
I just don't know. I traditionally am prolife. I worked for Birthright and came to some conclusions on my own I don't want to post all them here. My question is How are you going to legislate morality? Some think to make a law will stop it but honestly I wonder if it would then make the government able to FORCE me to abort if they think there are too many kids and population needs controlling like China? In the past Women were forced into hysterectomies and such so I worry about having NO choice too.
I do believe all life is sacred. My traditions teach me that from both sides.
But then if God gives me an area where i have to chose I would be stumped.
I have know a mother who had brain cancer and chose to die instad of treatment and left 5 children behind because her church didn't want her to chose her life. But then the children went to the foster system and where was the church then? "OH that isn't our problem. let the system take care of it!" that hurts lives too, to be so judgemental.
Yep sad. Makes me wonder a lot!
@tsukitaiyo - I don't live in a perfect world, and the hood is like right down the street from me, so don't give me your crap about how I don't know anything about the real world.
The fact that you(or anyone) don't/doesn't want the baby DOES NOT and NEVER WILL give you the right to take THEIR life away.
How would you feel if your mother said now, that you're living, that she doesn't like you, and she wants to kill you? Hm?
Those kids never had a chance at life, and no matter what way you look at it, it's murder. It's the destruction of their right to life.
If you don't want the kid, give birth, and put it up for adoption. Seriously.
@silkenbutterfly - I love you for that comment. That was amazing.
I've commented on other blogs also about this and in a nutshell what i've been saying is: Every abortion story is different and for anyone who has never been in a position where abortion was brought up as an option will never understand. It is hard enough for a person to come to the conclusion and then come to terms with her decision without a mob of protesters adding insult to injury. We feel shitty enough. As far as banning abortion goes...I just think there is a bigger picture. I understand it's a baby's life at risk we're talking about but things could get ugly if a girl has no where to go when she feels there is no other way or if she's in trouble or at risk of whatever. and not just A girl but several girls all over the country.
I consider myself a pro-lifer, but I don't really disagree with you. I believe abortion is murder, but there are some situations in which it's understandable. I don't think anyone would call it good, but it may be necessary.
I can't fault mothers who have abortions for medical risks. I get that it's not what anyone wants, and it's a hard choice.
In cases of rape (including the incestuous variety), I don't think it's right to get an abortion; one evil doesn't justify another. However, I have nothing but sympathy for anyone in such a situation. I realize what trauma does to people.
I just can't stand the idea of someone taking a life just to cover up her own irresponsibility. That's plain wrong.
when a president says he is pro-life or pro-choice, in my opinion, it doesn't matter. The way i see it... the people that truly don't want their baby will find all means to get rid of the baby (even though its cruel it's also true). The way I see it, it isn't about what your stand is, but what a president does or even the normal person does to try to minimize the amounts of unborn babies never to be born. I think it is unrealistic to think that all women want their child in all situations. It is just my opinion haha that ultimately its not about what you say you are but what your actions are to prevent the horrible fact that children are not being born when they have an opportunity to live.
@Red_foxes_rock - I mean, I'm just saying.
I obviously can't change your mind, but would agree that we should start with beginning?You know, making cheap, but effective, safe, easy-access birth control?
Anyone?
Or do we just want to keep screaming who's wrong and who's right and here's some situations and statistics and blah blah blah?(Totally fun, I know, but maybe we should try solving some of the problems before they happen.)
thank you for your post, momofjenmatt i think you touched upon a lot of things perfectly and in the most respectful manner.
I want to add something for you, without any sort of hostility. People don't understand rape and that sort of thing as well as they may think. I've been through it--and it was the most horrifying event of my life--it leaves you with nightmares and all kinds of other problems. But even possibly killing the child you were left with wouldn't fix the situation.You'd still have nightmares and shakes and emotional problems, and on top of that, you'd be living with the fact that you gave up a child's life. I've never spoken to anyone who didn't feel bad about an abortion. And I'm not trying to be mean or anything like that--but I'm saying, if I, at 17 years old, had to go through that again and was left with a child--I wouldn't for the life of me give it up.
--PS--It's not even a religion issue, to me, either--I'm not religious, it's just something that seems right when I think about it.
good views I give you credit for bringing it up not too many people do, as for me I'm pro-life except for in the cases of rape and incest. I also feel that with the health issues, I don't think personally I would have a late term abortion if my life were in danger but I'm also fourteen and haven't been in that position so I don't know how I would react, but I can say I know why women have late term abortions if there are helth issues with themself I do see why, so do not get me wrong there I do understand it. I also have a little brother who means the world to me, and I seen him suffer because he was born five weeks early, and so I was I but he had so many problems, he actually had to have a needle in his head for some kind of nutrient that he wasn't getting and I do know that for some it would be hard to for some people to even think that's possible for their kids so they do have an abortion for the kids sake. My brother is fine now and he's a healthy five year old energetic little boy. He does have asthma so there are many risks with pregnancy and that scares some women so I am pro-life but I guess depending on how much of a pro-lifer a person is I could be considered pro-choice, under certain circumstances.
i totally agree. i am also pro choice. you also have to think of what would happen if clinics were taken away. girls would go to "dirty" doctors or even mexico where drugs and medicine arent used the way they should be. also what about the stories about women shoving things inside of them to try to terminate the baby altogether and they end up dying as well. i am pro choice but no pro abortion as i could never get on myself
@organic70 - although I'm pro choice I still think that's over simplifying things a bit
@JandJinJapan - I respectfully disagree and have no need to re explain my post
@SladeTheGreyFox - Thank you very much
@Han_the_Roo - Well I'm sorry you have such close minded friends.
@galthouse - I don't think women who have abortions or consider abortion think that is there ONLY option and I know they won't do one until after the person is counseled and presented with all the legal options. That being said, I understand where you are coming from and your faith based views. I respect the way you presented those views here in a comment and I would never tell you, you were wrong nor do i have any desire for you to change your views. You should always stand by your principles and morals.
@venomxcupcake - yes, that has been proven over and over when it wasn't legal.
@Scrooge0 - uh oh your gona piss off a lot of Catholics with that statement
@cokeaddict - thank you so much, what a nice compliment!
@Ikwa - yeah, it's a tough subject. We legislate morality all the time, lots of things are considered imoral and illegal. Its just a matter of the majority agreeing, which is one reason this election is important for both sides.
@Jaxie314 - Thanks for sharing and you pretty much said what I said except in a personal way, so thanks again
@grammarboy - I respect your opinion. Again, although I did tell everyone where i stood on the issue i was NOT trying to confince anyone to feel a different way, just be respectful of all views is what i was asking for. And you were, so thanks
@KiYaaaa - Unfortuatly it matters a lot. There will soon be open positions on the surpreme court. The president will appoint people. Some will be glad that Roe vs. Wade will be overturned and some will be upset and then, yes, women will reost to illegal abortions which are not always safe.
You're welcome.
~1~
@maganda - thank you
@WithLove_YourDisaster - I'm sorry you went through that, I really am. I do know people who have had abortions and they may not be " happy" but they are at peace with their choice. It's always going to be upsetting which was part of my point, I am just saying some, not you obviously, but some people do think it would be more tramatic to bear a child. I'm not upset, you were just stating your views, and I respect that.
@Punky13dq - You have a long life ahead of you to decide to take one side over the other and your views might change with more life experience. Hopefully, you will never be in a position to have to decide for yourself.
@laurenalissa - yes, when abortion was illegal many women had unsafe abortions.
Wow, you pushed some buttons! (-:
I am too lazy to read all the comments, but I consider myself pro-life AND pro-choice. Ultimately, I think women should have complete control of their reproductive rights and that includes the right to choose to terminate a pregnancy. The only time I really uncomfortable with abortion is if it is used as birth control, which I think is reprehensible and disgustingly irresponsible. But regardless, the choice to continue a pregnancy is a personal one that every woman should have the right to make.
Enjoyed your blog! I still think the captions on the play that your son and daughter were in is my all time favorite. Why am I thinking of that? God only knows. My brain is a mystery to me.
@evagarringer - I think that was one of my favorites too. leo the pantless boy probably feels differently though. Yeah, this blog wasn't very funny.
In a class of mine, junior year, the girl sitting in the row next to me was sexually active. She said if she got pregnant she would kill "the thing". This upset me. For me, it's not about the people who are put in bad situations, where I believe there should be exceptions for, but the people who do it because they are reckless and seemingly moralless.
Nice to see this issue discussed in a calm, respectful manner.
You took the words right out of my mouth. Wonderful job!
Noone (that I know of) is anti-life, but I and many others who've never had an abortion are pro-choice.
-M
@momofjenmatt - i hope not....
@Skyofnew - well this girl obviously has problems. Also, kids say stupid things sometimes and that's not how they really feel
@beli_grrl - thanks
@Mandrake - thank you
Doesn't birth control still work for people with cancer?
"She was told, she can't get pregnant
due to the radiation/ Chemotherapy, and if she did, and tried to bring
it to term, the baby would most likely die as would she"-I'm confused; how would she get pregnant if the doctors told her she couldn't get pregnant?
Hopefully, women won't get as traumatized after their 5th abortion as they were in their 1st, since they're just so desensitized to the emotional scarring that goes on after they lose so many opportunities to love a child.
I couldn't agree more with you, and I appauld you for your empathy. It's a wonderful post and after reading this I don't see how anyone cannot have some empathy for those who get abortions for reasons of rape or survival. Thank you
I'm moderate...
I think this is the first blog I've read about this issue that hasn't made me angry. We could probably come to some kind of resolution if more people would consider both sides like this. Many kudos
Bravo!! Excellent blog, they should leave this blog on the main page forever.
It's obvious there are crazies on both sides of the issue. You can be a pro-choice crazy just as easily as you can be a pro-life crazy. Society just points out pro-life crazies and leaves alone the pro-choice crazies (for the most part).
The true question at the heart of that abortion issue, is how much do we as individuals respect and honor human life? I don't know of anyone that doesn't think that dogs are crazy/weird/look down on them when they kill/eat their own babies. (Yes, this happens with animals). So why don't we feel appalled at the same situation when a human kills another defenseless baby human being. Is there anyone that can honestly say that they deserve to live more than another person? I know there are rape/incest victims out there. But why victimize another person (aborted baby) just because you were victimized. We as a species have to move on past our barbaric nature and into a nature of love and forgiveness. Or as Dr. Martin Luther King said in his 1964 Nobel Peace Prize acceptance speech: "nonviolence is the answer to the crucial political and moral question of our time - the need for man to overcome oppression and violence without resorting to violence and oppression." And yes, abortion is both violence and oppression.
I was raised an evangentical/pentecostal person of faith, and I do believe in Pro choice. There are too many shades of gray, too many walks to consider. Abortion is ultimately a difficult personal choice no matter the circumstances. It ultimately depends ont he situation and the point the person is in their life. God has heard of it all underneath the sun, and regardless or what people might say He always gives you a CHOICE.
Whether or not that decsion is; people might not like it, but God does and ultimately give you the choice. thats what many pro-lifers forget. Life is not that simple, or black and white. I hear a lot of love in this room and mutual respect thats for sure keep it up.
Wow, your post almost put me to tears! This is the most eloquently written blog I've ever read about the topic of abortion. Not only did you choose your words carefully, but i totally disagree with kulamulla. You did so in a way that you will not offend the pro-life party. (In which i think is very hard to do) And if that person thought you didn't put enough "empathy" towards them, then they should not be reading other blogs that blasts them out even more. When I was reading Dans comments on the topic, some of the comments angered me. The people that commented his blog talks about murder and selfishness but really, I think THEY don't put enough empathy towards those that are in that situation! Anyway to make a long story short, I wish this article was published or something because I couldn't agree more! haha
As a mother of two myself, I completely agree with everything you have written here. Thank you for such a well thought out and well written post!
great post; thank you.
I appreciate the civility, and though you may disagree with me, the facts speak for themselves, and are undeniable. When 99+% of all performed abortions aren't for rape, incest, nor to save the life of the mother, there can only be one other, more sinister, more diabolical, and more heinous reason for abortion being made legal.
@aznspartan94 - yes she was on birth control and being put into early menapause. There was very little chance she would get pregnant, but still a chance non the less. They said she couldn't as in should NOT get pregnant.
@WifeOfAGayHusband - thank you. I feel ( modestly) that I am a very empathic person and it bothers me when others are not.
@Cliffycliffz - I grey ha ha
@blogrog - thank you very much. I think in all " hot" topics people need to try and see all points of view even if you lean or are strong in another. How can things be solved if you don't even understand how one person can feel a certain way.
@MsJYang - Oh I think xanga would strongly disagree with that, but thank you so much
@mbv80 - I agree, crazies are everywhere on all sides.
@KaeishaVixen - I am so glad that for the most part this blog has been a positive respectful thing and that really makes me happy.
@fEMALE_iNTUITION - wow, thank you. One of the nicest compliments I have ever gotten.
@PoisonGrl21 - your welcome. Moms rock!
@sWtLiLdEvIl137 - your very welcome.
@JandJinJapan - sinister,and diabolical are VERY strong words. I think you need to be in the womans head and heart to say that.
So I take it that the belief here is that the father of the baby being aborted has no say, because he isn't in the head nor heart of the mother (though he had an important part in creating the unborn baby to begin with)? And, again, when 99+% of all performed abortions are for something other than rape, incest, and to save the life of the mother, can it be a "good" reason? Can if be anything else except sinister, diabolical, heinous, and plain outright evil reason? Please enlighten me, if I am falling short somewhere in this belief....
i read the abortion bill trying to be passed by where i live & although this bill is trying to ban abortions, there are exceptions for rape, incest & medical reasons. 98% of abortions are for reasons other than related to these, however.
...you say you are pro choice so the mothers can have a choice. what about the baby's choice?
personally, i don't understand how the lines of killing a baby got muddled. somehow if an infant were killed 2 minutes after being born, it is viewed as much more horrendous than if the baby is hidden away in a mother's womb and is killed.
the baby's heart is stopped. this baby had fingernails. it's own personality. a brain and a body.
as you could probably guess, i am pro life. i understand there are special cases. i also understand abortion stops a beating heart.
@JandJinJapan - Honestly, I didn't write this to debate the issue. In my experience with people I have known, anyone who has terminated their pregnancy has done so with thought, counsel, prayer and felt it was the best choice for them, their bodies etc... I have a son and I have told him, unfortunately he has NO say so since he can't get pregnant or give birth. That is the way God made us. So if he chooses to have sex he runs the risk, therefore he should know his partner very well and her intentions, values etc... WELLL before he has sex with her. But please again, I am not debating the issue just want some compassion for all people.
@colorblind__quotes - And I understand why you feel as you do. I can't won't argue. And you should fight for Roe VS. Wade to be overturned and should vote for people who can help do that. But again, it is legal now, not all people feel as you do about the fetus, TRY and see the other side, it won't change you mind, it will just make you more compassionate. Maybe talk to someone who had one and ask them why. I bet you will judge them just a little less harshly.
Fair enough, but please don't say that these people prayed, or at least, insinuate that they prayed correctly. The Bible is pretty clear that Father sees and knows the baby long before the mother even realizes she is pregnant. I cannot imagine that God would approve of abortion in any case, save in sparing the life of the mother.
@JandJinJapan - excuse me!!!!!! I WILL say SOME people prayed and not everyone prays in your way or to your God. We live in America ( or I live in America) we have many religions. I would NEVER say someone prayed wrong!!!!!!!!! You can think they prayed wrong or whatever, NOT ME. That is arrogant. By the way I believe God sees and knows someones heart, NOT YOU. And he will be the judge NOT YOU. But again that is MY belief not EVERYONES.
my boyfriend says that he is pro life but only to an extent i think if theres no danger in giving birth to the child and it was just from a one night stand or something then you should have it and do adoption.
why do you think the fetus is not a human life? why is it that if a
mother went into an ally and killed her 1 year old it would be sick.
but if a mother go's and has an abortion than it fine. America has to
WAKE UP AND SEE THAT THEY ARE KILLING THE NEXT GENERATION! what if your
mother had aborted you. you don't have a say in it! people need to know
that they are killing a life not just a peace of flesh! its not your
chose to make! do you think that if a unborn child could have a say in
it he or she would say YES KILL ME, I WILL JUST BE AN INCONVENIENT TO
YOU!
LOOK AT THE DATA
Population
of 71 largest U.S. cities: 50,511,700 (2008 projected)Number of babies aborted each year worldwide --
50,000,000.
Number of American babies aborted since 9/11 -
8,325,000.
Number of
babies aborted throughout the world since World War II:More than
1.5 billion.T
op 3
countries in number of abortions annually:1. Red
China -- 11,000,000.2. Former
Soviet Union -- 6,000,000.3. The United States -- 1,370,000
Number of
American of all ages who start smoking every day -- 3,000.Percentage
of smokers who will die prematurely 50-70 years later: 30%.Percentage of babies who are killed by
abortion right now: 26%.
Number of
Americans of all ages and races
murdered daily by handguns – 18.3Number of
American babies of all races
killed every day by abortion – 3,750.Ratio of
babies killed by abortion to people killed by handguns:205 to 1
Suicide
rate for women following a live birth: 5.9 per 100,000.
Suicide
rate for women following an abortion: 34.7 per 100,000.
Increased risk: 488%Number of
American battle deaths in all U.S. wars since 1776: 654,000Number of
abortions in the United States since 1970: 50,500,000
Ratio of
U.S. abortions to battle deaths in all U.S. wars: 77.2 to 1
U.S.
National Debt -- $9.06 trillion.Loss of
downstream tax revenues from future taxpayers
aborted since 1970: $18 trillion.(not
including Social Security and Medicare)Ratio to
U.S. national debt: 2 to 1
Average
cost for an abortion in the United States today:
$600Estimated
cost of preventing an abortion
through compassionate education:$30
Ratio of cost of an abortion to cost of education: 20:1
STOP IT NOW!
@JandJinJapan - I think it is a bit presumptuous to judge other people's prayers as "incorrect." First of all, to say people's prayers are incorrect is just strange to me; how can you pray wrong? It's communication with God, how can you do that incorrectly? People can hear God wrong or misinterpret what they think God is saying. However, there are massive differences within the Christian Church, all by people who feel they are hearing from God. I think it is offensive to assume that your feelings are the complete will of God for everyone. I cannot fathom why some people feel led to do some things, but that certainly doesn't mean they haven't heard from God.
There are a lot of ways to interpret the Bible, and arguably, unborn children weren't considered the same value as born people in some legal situations in the old testament. The verses people quote as anti-abortion aren't really specific and don't explicitly say life starts at conception, just that God knows everything and has plans for people.
In any case, I think that without knowing the situation or even another person's relationship with God, making the judgment against another person's prayers is rude if not un-Christ-like. You would likely feel outraged if others told you that your prayers were incorrect or your interactions with God were wrong. Disagree if you want, but please don't judge other people's prayers.
Seeing as this comment is so far down in the chain, I doubt it will be read.
Let me start by saying I'm pro-choice. I understand the argument that compares abortion to murder, because technically, there was human life that once existed that is no longer post-abortion.
That being said, I was watching TV one night and the question "If a man steals for his starving family is it still a crime?" popped up. I began to think of abortion as a way to use circumstance to find loopholes in the law (rape, unfit mother, inappropriate cirumstances / preparation, etc). So if this were the case, the man stealing for his starving family would technically be in the right if abortion were legal.
But abortion is legal. What do you think about that? Am I totally off base?
Seeing as this comment is so far down in the chain, I doubt it will be read.
Let
me start by saying I'm pro-choice. I understand the argument that
compares abortion to murder, because technically, there was human life
that once existed that is no longer post-abortion.
That being
said, I was watching TV one night and the question "If a man steals for
his starving family is it still a crime?" popped up. I began to think
of abortion as a way to use circumstance to find loopholes in the law
(rape, unfit mother, inappropriate cirumstances / preparation, etc). So
if this were the case, the man stealing for his starving family would
technically be in the right if abortion were legal.
But abortion is legal. What do you think about that? Am I totally off base?
i think that people have their own choices.
and their choices depend on each situation,
we shouldn't judge each other.
good post.
Props to you for making this post, and I agree with you. I agree that you can be a good mother while being pro-choice, and I also agree that people getting abortions often are in a bad situation. I hope your friend is doing well, and that's so horrible to have such a thing happen to her.
Unfortunately, there are a few people who have abortions due to mental problems and such like that. I've heard of a woman (through a psychology professor who used to work as a psychiatrist) who had multiple late-term abortions, and it had to do with her problems. It really bothers me when people compare normal women to people like this, or say that women having multiple abortions is a common thing. Most women who have multiple abortions also have mental diseases. But most women who just have an abortion do it for so many reasons - health and incest, like you said, capability, and so many other things.
I am for choice, and that's that. Thank you for posting this, it was a great read, and I agree on so many points.
I've always said, I'm pro thought.
what a fantastic post. i love and appreciate it.
i think what might be helpful is to put more focus on our extremely flawed adoption/foster system, and help better educate people about birth control.
i also have observed that both of our presidential candidates have -- amazingly, and contrary to popular belief -- essentially the same views on abortion. john mccain has said that he would like to have an exception in the case of rape, incest, or health of the mother, and barack obama has said that he would like to ban late term abortions if there is an exception for rape, incest, or health of the mother (which is why he voted against banning late term abortions in the past -- there wasn't an exception for those cases). i think most people would agree that women in those unimaginable situations should have a choice, and that it absolutely shouldn't be available as just another form of birth control. i feel like we're all basically wanting the same thing, but our emotions and self-righteousness get in the way of our reaching a decision everyone, or most everyone, can feel good about.
momofjenmatt - "excuse me!!!!!! I WILL say SOME people prayed and not everyone prays in your way or to your God. We live in America ( or I live in America) we have many religions. I would NEVER say someone prayed wrong!!!!!!!!! You can think they prayed wrong or whatever, NOT ME. That is arrogant. By the way I believe God sees and knows someones heart, NOT YOU. And he will be the judge NOT YOU. But again that is MY belief not EVERYONES."
In your response to me, concerning having compassion for all (though, there isn't compassion for all if there is no compassion for the unborn baby), you insinuated that everyone you talked to and knew who'd had an abortion prayed about it:
"In my experience with people I have known, anyone who has terminated their pregnancy has done so with thought, counsel, prayer and felt it was the best choice for them, their bodies etc..."
If the "anyone" you mentioned there does not mean all the people you have known prayed about their decision, then kindly refine your statements, and make it clearer who prayed and who did not. For those that did pray, according to the Bible, they did pray wrongly. In fact, to whatever god they prayed, the prayted wrongly, as abortion is discouraged in Buddhism, Shintoism, Islam, Hinduism, and just aobut every other modern religion. According to these beliefs, and to Chgristianity and the Bible, if the woman in quesiton was praying about having and abortion, she was praying wrongly. Again, these are not my words, but the words of the founders of every major religion and of Jesus Christ and the Bible. It is not I who am judging, but the different religions and the Bible that are doing so.
ogre_friend - According to what I just wrote to momofjenmatt, and according to the different religions and Christinaity, it is wrong ot pray about wherther or not to have an abortion if the answer is already clearly stated in these religions' scriptures and in the Bible. As far as there being "different" interpretations of the Bible, and one group taking it this way, and another that way, your missing the fact that the Bible is meant ot be read under the guidance and interpretation of the Holy Ghost (see 2nd Peter 1.20-21), and is not meant for personal, subjective interpretation. And these instances oyu mention of there being in the Old Testament when an unborn baby was killed? Would you mind posting a reference from the Old Testament? I ask this because Psalm 139, Jeremiah 1, Judges 13, and various parts of Isaiah (just to name a few, and not to mention the New Testament in Luke where God announces to both Zechariah and Mary about their respective unborn children being on the way) speak of God knowing children before they are even known of by their parents. If there is an instance where God deemed it okay to take the life of an unborn child, please direct me to it, if you will? Again, these are God's words from the Bible, and he is the one who will judge, and is judging, not I.
i am pro-choice too!
The sad thing is that women aren't told about the link between abortion and breast cancer. Check out my site for more about this issue.
I'm pro-life. I understand pro-choice people, especially when they seem to actually consider the other side, like you do. If I doctor told me that keeping the baby would kill me, I would terminate it. It would be hard, and I'm not trying to make this sound terrible, it is selfish. But is that in a bad way? no. The baby would have to come up without a mother. Your husband/partner wouldn't have you, the pain it would cause to loose myself would be much greater than knowing you terminated the pregnancy for the right reasons. I am very much confused on the rape issue. As much as I would want to say that's it is okay to terminate pregnancies if you were raped, I can't say that. I have a feeling, if that were to become legal, there would suddenly be a lot more 'rapes.' Is anyone else thinking what I'm thinking? But then, for the people who actually do have to go through that, it would be awful. Incest is also touchy in the same ways. Mostly, I think we should promote sex eduction, and not substance only education either. Kids are going to learn about it, they might as well see both sides from an actual licensed teacher.
... if only we could honor both causes, like if we had the technology to take the child out of the woman and raise it in some artificial womb. on one hand we are talking about someone's life, even though that someone is still a tiny embryo. on the other hand, we are talking about the woman's rights to be in charge of her physical and emotional well being.
I think there are shades of gray on both sides, as someone said earlier. I myself am pro-life..... I think mostly because I can name a total of 16 girls that are my age (20 years old, give or take a couple years either way) who have had abortions, and in all cases, it was because of unsafe sexual practices and not using protection. All of these girls knew how to protect themselves, but chose not to. Then when they had to face the consequences of those actions, they chose to abort their unborn children.
From my perspective, abortion has become a means of birth control for the majority of women who have abortions in this country. It's out of control. There need to be extreme restrictions. I understand that it is a woman's body. But that woman put her body in that situation, in most cases. She chose not to protect her body. I'm tired of hearing about a woman's body. What about that child's body? Why doesn't it get a say?
Thank you for your thoughtful words and opinions.. just sharing my thoughts.
I don't understand the situation or the position of either side, but personally I think that every person should put them self and their own thoughts ahead of their own moral convictions as well as the convictions of others. Bottom line: do what you have to in order to preserve everything you care about. That means weighing your options and proceeding with the most beneficial.
I'd say that makes me pro choice.
@madelon88 - thanks for his input
@ogre_friend - thank you, it was late and I was getting too upset with him. thanks for the calm voice of reason
@livefoshibby - I did read your comment it repeated a lot, was that an accident?
@marciax3 - thanks
@Naoko_Ai - your welcome and thanks for the comment
@thekingofnonomia - I LIKE THAT!!!!!
@the1andonlyJB - Both our candidates are similar, Sarah palin goes against her own running mate in this and other issues.
@pretty_secrets - cool
@Joyfully@revelife - thank you, hopefully women will look into that
@glam_obsessions - interesting thoughts, thank you
@elvinwei - yep
@whitney - many people have mentioned this, maybe the key then is to educate very strongly about birth control and make it more available.
@flyfox65 - sounds like it. thanks for the comment
The defining value of our culture must be life. Or else there is no choice.
Situations, like a single mother who already has children, are useful for purposes of rhetoric and discussion. However, they are largely detached from the reality of the issue.
Our desire to try to apply moral ambiguity to things that make us uncomfortable will ultimately ruin our civilization.
@Sonofabiscuitbox -
Well if you don't think we read the same post reread it because if anyone read the wrong post it was you. This post is about pro lifers coming down hard on women who get abortions.
Look do you know what pro choice people want from pro lifers? They want them to go away.
@momofjenmatt -
You assume I'm pro life and you shouldn't.You say I shouldn't judge women who have abortion and that pisses me off because I don't judge them!
nice post. finally, a post worth featuring.
i can't take a firm stand on abortion. i lean more toward pro-choice, but even then, i hate taking anything at all--it's too gray an issue.
i will say this. it's always so easy to throw out alternatives. it's like when people at home advocate and glorify war, as if it were a piece of cake to go out and win a war. many of these advocates are capable of fighting themselves, yet i hardly see them registering to go to Iraq.
i mention this in relation to people who say, "why not give these babies up for adoption?" then again, do those who wouldn't be adopted, and would have to go through the foster system, be better off being aborted?
see what i mean? i can't make up my mind. i keep vacillating. in any case, it's too gray. i hate talking about it. lol.
(p.s. i'm not anti-war, i'm just against simplifying issues like war and abortion.)
im pro choice aswell, great post
Good Morning Everyone,
In my last comment...others stated that there are alternatives to abortion and that there are better ways to deal with a pregnancy other than abortion.
I love those statements. Unfortunately they are completely unrelated to the discussion at hand. Do I think abortion should be used as a form of birth control? Absolutely not. Do I think that abortion is the right choice in some medical situations including rape, incest etc......Absolutely!!! A woman's right to choose is as basic as the right to breath the same oxygen as others. Discussing morale implications again, has nothing to do with whether their is a need for it. Moral issues should be left out of it. Right wingers love to beat the drum and jam their points of view down everyone's throat to the point where they would love to see it signed into law.
Organic Grog
@evagarringer - I like that we think alike!!! new xanga buddy!
For me, this topic has always been one that I think you have to decide on your own. If you haven't been in the situation you can't know what you would and you can't make this kind of decision if you aren't facing it. You may say I'd do this or that, but when it comes down to it, you won't know until you're right there forced to make the decision.
I also don't like using the word choice because it's a decision, something that you have to really think about. A choice is do you want french fries or onion rings.
Thanks for your post. I feel like I'm the only pro-choicer in the world sometimes. I honestly dislike when pro-lifers say, "Abortion in murder" because their belief that life begins at conception. I do not believe that life begins at conception. I believe that if it can't survive outside the womb, than it's not quite a life. I just think that pro-life people think everyone thinks like them, but they don't and we should be able to choose what we do with our bodies. I'm not pro-abortion either, but I agree that you should be able to choose. Especially in life-threatening and incest/rape cases. I think the child born of those situations are going to have a pretty low quality of life...
I could go on forever about this...There seems to be a bit of a pre-occupation with having children in this country. Look at China! They are only allowed to have one! That's what makes this country so awesome, that you have a right to have as many as you want...or make your choice!
@organic70 - I enjoyed that post! You hit the nail on the head. Creating laws to stop abortion or gay marriage isn't going to solve the bigger problems in the US.
at 14 I was raped by 2 guys.. got pregnant ... thrown out of court b/c i was knocked out.. could not prove that either one of these did the rape.. I gave her up .. as abortion back in the early 70's was high risk.. do I regret carrying her to full term? At times yes.. b/c of all the emotions that were attached to her being .. before she was born.. I decided not keep her : 1. How does one explain to that child you were conceived from rape? 2. I hated the guys whom raped me.. and it was a small town.. and that hate .. she would have witnessed 3. I wanted her to have a better life than mine..
I would have done an abortion but it was considered *High Risk* back then.. for the 9 months of mixed emotions, especially after the courts decision.. the anger that I felt I know went into her... there is no doubt.. and the longer she was within.. the more I hated what those guys got a way with.. but then there were times of " rubbing my belly.. crying, not knowing what to do.. and talking to her ... feeling out my emotions.. a great concern for her existence and that I would not expose her to all of the hate, anger, and helplessness , that I was experiencing.. I wanted her to have a better life.. I do not know if she did.. as I have never met her.. nor sought her out... but yes abortion is a personal experience ... and it should be kept that way... not being judged by others as if they have that right to do so..
Yeah, the "pro thought" thing resinates with a lot of people. I think that trying to divide this complex issue into opposing corners is counterproductive when the reality is that, like a lot of issues, the majority of people are somewhere in the middle ground.
Your case was very well stated!
I'm often disgusted by the behavior of those on either side of the fence. I'm often disgusted by my own people. Blech! Stupid people!
P.S. - I am a pro-lifer, but I just recently did a school project where I had to defend pro-choice...it went very well! 
@organic70 -
"A woman's right to choose is as basic as the right to breath the same oxygen as others."
Ah! But you see, sir, I believe that a baby has the basic right to life, same as everyone else. It's pretty much a universal agreement that murdering someone is bad, yeah? That's a moral issue.
As a right-wing, pro-life teenager, I believe that an unborn child is still a child. Thus, I believe killing him/her is bad, based upon the universal agreement that killing people isn't very nice. Yeah, it's a moral issue, but if I don't bring moral implications into it, it's like saying "Mr. Organic70, I don't think there's any problem with someone killing you."
Now, if I thought of it as "a potential for life" and I was arguing for its right to exist, *then* it certainly would become ambiguous. I'll be the first to admit that it gets sticky in rape situations, but to me an individual's right to exist is more important than someone's emotional stability.
I don't expect you to change your opinion on the matter, but I hope you can understand mine. I'd be happy to lend you some pliers, too. Those viewpoints can be hard on the esophagus.
@SwordAndSacrifice - society has survived just fine and i think it will continue to do so
@kulamulla - I am just responding to what you are saying and I am just trying to explain what I meant by this post! You are on of the VERY few who do not seem to REALLY understand what I am trying to say, and I have no idea how to say it any different. I am sorry I pissed you off. But we are online and therefore really can't discuss the issue, hear voice inflections etc...
@xxXeNtRoPyXxx - no, I get it. I am a grey person too. sometimes I even go from dark shades of gray to light and flip flop ha ha, cool people do that.
@xbertyx - thanks
@organic70 - you know what? People either get what you said or they don't. Don't bother. I know I'm not going to expalin THIS POST again, you shouldn't have to explain your comment.
@lissalinn - very good point, decission is a much better word.
@MrsMcKitty - but they really think life starts at conception, so they are and should be entitled to their views.
@CancerAbuse - I am SO sorry you had to go through that. : ( You made a very brave decission.
@thekingofnonomia - go middle grounders!!!!
@MEluvCH - thank you
@Just_another_word - I am often disgusted with my own people too ha ha.
@BunnyBliz - this was presented very well. Thanks.
@momofjenmatt -
Your saying everybody should be civil toward one another. Write another one telling us all to love one another and I'll think you the daughter of God.
@kulamulla - And I'm sure pro-lifers would absolutely love for pro-choice people to stick around? No. It's two different sides of an arguement that can either give or deny a woman the right to an abortion. This is not picking out what color carpet you want in your new house...this is a serious issue and I don't blame people on both sides for getting nasty with eachother. Thus is the way of the world, so stop whining.
@kulamulla - your being borderline offensive. I am a child of God and I don't want to do this with you any more. I'm seriously done with discussing this with you.
"Do you believe in the Bible?" History (Bible) has a way to come back to teach us lessons again. I Believe it is God's Choice, He has a way to test people, even in the toughest situations (like This) that even pro-choice or pro-lifers do not know.
I think this is one of the best articles I've read on the abortion issue.You bring up all the valid points for being pro-choice.
I missed this post the other day...everything that you stated is pretty much what i feel...i am pro choice.
@JoshuaAKent - I respect your opinion
@am1977 - thank you very much
@brandi_shawn - thanks : )
it is great reading your thoughts on abortion. you make some really excellent points though. personally i dont agree with abortion. i can understand someone having one for medical reasons though if it is putting their health at risk or in danger. Every child deserves a chance at life.
i also can understand the reasons why someone would want to have an abortion.
Comments are closed.