March 30, 2013

  • words are powerful, The Gay thing

         It's summer, a beautiful day.  I am at my friend's home, the three of us have just gotten back from the park with our dogs.  We let them off leash so they are tired as is one of my friends who ran all over the park with them.  Their home, a loft, is beautiful.  One of the most beautiful homes I have ever been in.  They are making me dinner, grilling.  I am offered some iced tea which one of my friends is super proud of, although I'm not sure why.  I am taking photos of the dogs, because they are adorable.  

    As one of my friends makes a great salad, my other friend is working on the burgers on the grill.  I am not helping and am comfortable enough to not even offer.  They nurture me, and I let them.  I start to dose off on their couch.  Such a comfortable couch, I know even if I buy the same one it could never be as comfortable.  It's kind of warm though and one of my friends asks me to convince the other to turn the air up.  It drives this friend nuts how warm the house is kept and they feel bad for the dog.  It's not that hot but I see where they are coming from, it would be nice to have it a couple degrees cooler.

    We have dinner and when I am not yelling at my dog to go lay down and quit begging, we are laughing.  A lot.  My friends have my sense of humor, so I think we are all very funny.  If something painful comes up, in regards to me, they make me laugh and build me up.  They have fed me, and they are so nurturing emotionally.  I need this.  The dogs have given into sleep and we remark how sweet they are, even though earlier I wanted to throw mine off the balcony.  

    Once in awhile they might mention something that is just between them.  Clean laundry, Schedules, a dentist appointment on tuesday,  needing to go to the grocery store. They have been watching old Dick Van Dyke Show episodes and I ask if they have seen the Danny Thomas ones yet.  They have not.  I tell them, those are some of the best.  I make fun of them for being so young and me for being so old. 

    There is no booze. At least not this night.  Sometimes we have wine or something. There is no discussion of sex, unless we are talking about a particular, promiscuous student.  One of my friends is a teacher.    The other is an artist, fashion designer, textile genius, and more .  Their work space is all of the upstairs and I have just seen what they are working on and it's beautiful and cool.  I feel like my cool factor goes up by being friends with them.  They are both interesting, and educated and SO smart.

    There are very subtle displays of affection, a hand on an arm when passing the other, leaning in slightly when looking over the others shoulders to see something on the computer.  I am told the dog gets jealous if hugs are exchanged and I don't say they shouldn't give in to that because they can raise their dog however they want.

    When I am with this couple it is like a boring sitcom. Comforting, but no drama, not much excitement  In fact this blog so far is pretty boring, I'm sure.  

    They are my gay friends.  They are friends in the truest sense of the word.  They both listen, they don't interrupt. They don't judge.  They really listen.  They look at me when I speak, they pause before they respond, and almost always say the right thing.

    Neither has told me they want or need to be legally wed. Of course they are all about the equality thing, but I have no idea if they would take advantage of that or not if they could.

    Honestly, when I am with them they seem to be more concerned with me and my health and well being which is always in question.

    sadly though, not all my friends are like minded.  And especially with facebook, and being friends with some who really are not my friends, conflicts have arisen.  I am hearing things that actually infuriate me.   

    Facebook and the internet have so many benefits and yet, there are downfalls to be sure.  In the real world I can know that someones views differ from mine but we try not to go there.  On facebook, people, and I am one, put it all out there.  And so you get to hear how people really feel.  And some of it is upsetting

    Things I am hearing that upset me.

    1) Omg, I am so sick of the gay thing, can everyone quit talking about it.

    2) The bible says ____ 

    3) God made Adam and Eve... 

    4) slippery slope, next thing you know people will want to marry their dog.

    5) it's unnatural

    6) They want to force their agenda on everyone.  

    7) we can't change the traditional view of marriage.

    8) harm to children

    and worse!!!!!!

    Words are Powerful.  We are talking about REAL people.  And they read these things.  Are people aware that in Nazi Germany, it didn't go from level one, Jews were fine, had businesses and families and the next day they were thrown in ovens. It started with some anti-semitism, then some propaganda, then laws etc... it started with words and attitude. 

        Are people aware that arguments about alleged harm to children, unnaturalness of the unions, importance of tradition... were all used to support the importance of Whites not marrying non-whites?

      People are still trying to make it about sex and try and portray any gay relationship as involving illicit sex and therefore not worthy of being condoned in holy matrimony.

      Did you know People used to insist that interracial marriage was sinful and contrary to the Bible?

     

    Gay people are discriminated against in many ways, not just with this issue.  

    However, since we have evolved as a society ( sort of ) most people are APPALLED when they hear arguments that were made against whites and blacks marrying.  Let me give you some parallels.

    Interracial marriage runs counter to God's plan:
    “Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he
    placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with his
    arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that he
    separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix.”
    (Source: Virginia trial judge upholding conviction of Mildred and Richard
    Loving for interra

     

    “The amalgamation of the races is not only unnatural, but is always
    productive of deplorable results. The purity of the public morals, the moral
    and physical development of both races, and the highest advancement of
    civilization . . . all require that [the races] should be kept distinctly separate,
    and that connections and alliances so unnatural should be prohibited by
    positive law and subject to no evasion.”
    (Source: Dissenting California Supreme Court Justice objecting to that
    Court's decision striking down a state law ban on interracial ma

    Persons wishing to enter into interracial marriages come from the “dregs of
    society.”
    (Source: Advocates in favor of California's ban on interracial marriage,
    quoted in Perez v. Lippold, 198 P.2d at 25)
    If we allow “gay marriage,” then the next thing you
    know we'll have brothers and sisters wanting to
    marry each other, or demands for legalization of
    polygamous marriages.
    (Source: Vermont House and Senate Judiciary
    Committee Public Hearings, 1/25/00, 2/1/00)
    “[If interracial couples have a right to marry], al

    “[If interracial couples have a right to marry], all our marriage acts forbidding
    intermarriage between persons within certain degrees of consanguinity are
    void.”
    (Source: Perez v. Lippold, 198 P.2d at 40 (Shenk, J., dissenting, quoting
    from a prior court case))
    “The underlying factors that constitute justification for laws against
    miscegenation closely parallel those which sustain the validity of prohibitions
    against incest and incestuous marriages.”
    (Source: Perez v. Lippold, 198 P.2d at 46 (Shenk, J., dissenting, quoting
    from a prior court case))
    “[T]he State's prohibition of interracial marriage . . . stands on the same
    footing
    as the prohibition of polygamous marriage, or incestuous marriage, or
    the prescription of minimum ages at which people may
    marry, and the prevention of the marriage of people who are mentally
    incompetent.”
    (Source: Excerpted United States Supreme Court oral argument
    transcripts from Loving v. Virginia, from Peter Irons and Stephanie Guitton,
    eds., May it Please the Court (1993) at 282-283, quoting Virginia Assistant
    Attorney General R.

    “Each [party seeking to marry a member of a different race] has the right
    and the privilege of marrying within his or her own group.”
    (Source: Perez v. Lippold,

    I am guessing and hoping people read this and are shocked. Almost no one believes this anymore. Do they?  

    Words are powerful.  Words are hurtful.  These are people.  Some good, some bad.  

    "I'm not a homophobe, I just follow the bible or I'm fine with the gays as long as they keep it to themselves.  Why can't they just stay in the closet like they used to?"  If you don't hear the ignorance of these statements then I'm sad for you.  But I am sadder for my friends, who deserve to be seen as they are.  

    Two of the finest, most moral, human beings I have ever known.  Be mindful when you post comments on people's posts.  Think of who may be reading.  Think before you speak or write.  

    Words are powerful.

     

     

     

Comments (63)

  • A very powerful post, mama bear!

  • Laura, this is an AMAZING post, and should be featured. I hope you get tons of people to read it.

  • @sincerely_jennie - Thank you Jennie :)

    @ZSA_MD - Thank you, how kind.  Unfortunately, I am never here so I have lost followers.  Maybe you can get others to read it!  You're popular :)

  • ah, my clear thinking - so smart daughter...you make me so proud!  keep up the good fight!

  • More people should be forced to be "joined at the hip" (forced to live with each other) to make people realize that living together is a hard commitment. America has emphasized being independent but basically even the Bible and Torah says that "man should not live alone".

    Then again some people have a fetish that one part of the human body is off limits. Well actually they don't want gays to have as much fun (or pain) as heterosexuals.

    People can want to prevent interracial marriages and gay marriages but basically they are going too far in forcing government to do their bidding. Basically parents can control their children to a certain age but once they get to be adults, all bets are supposedly off.

  • @PPhilip - Interracial marriages are legal now.

  • I loved what you had to say here. Most people tend to forget that they're just like everyone else. We're all people.

  • Good post.  I'm so tired of hearing those things that I just tune them out.

  • @ItsAll_A_LoveWar - Thank you so much!, That was the goal, to humanize.

    @ascultafili - Wish that I could, thanks for reading and complimenting!

  • thank you for sharing the story of your friends. I wish I knew them =]

  • Great post! Words are indeed powerful. A lot of people have evolved on these issues. I think that's a great thing but I cannot relate to this evolution personally. I'm 59 years old. My first recollection of witnessing racism came at age 7. I've never been racist nor anti-gay. I didn't have to evolve on those issues. My dad probably had a lot to do with that. He had a deep respect for all. It goes further than that though. I've learned a lot from friends and people of all races and all sexual preferences not to mention I've shared lots of laughs with all kinds of people. I don't know why I never had the hatred in my heart I have seen in the hearts of some others but then I shouldn't have to explain why anymore than I should have to explain why I wake up in the morning. To me anything else would have been unnatural.  

  • Wonderful post and thumbs up 100%

  • The thing about gay marriage is that it doesn't have anything to do with our personal relationships with our wonderful gay friends and family.

    It has to do with the political principles that human beings use to design their governments.

    So a discussion about gay marriage is about political philosophy, not our personal relationships.

    Discussions that use personal relationships are based on emotion.

    Emotional arguments are inappropriate in politics and philosophy.

  • thanks for asking me to read this. you are right. it doesn't change my mind. its not about how wonderful people are. it is about what God requires. to compare it to race is a shame though. again, thanks for sharing your point of view and giving me the space to share mine.--karen

  • @momofjenmatt - Not sure if I am popular.. but, I have recommended this and have sent a couple of messages to friends to stop by and read this.

  • I will say this, I do not dislike anyone that is gay, it is what they do that is wrong and goes against what the Scripture says. And that I will stand on. I have friends that are gay, and they know how I feel, but I don't hate anyone.
    For the matter of interrace marriage, Mose had a black wife. This is a nice post. Bro. Doc

  • @ImNotUglyIJustNeedLove - I wasn't arguing.  I was humanizing human beings.  There is no argument. I just wanted people to see something through my eyes.

  • @lifeontheWink - anytime.  I didn't compare it to race.  I used real arguments that were used in court to say interracial marriage was wrong. I saw parallels. I appreciate you reading.

  • @BroDoc - I understand your interpretation of the scripture.  I just wanted to humanize my friends.

  • @ZSA_MD - You are... and THANK YOU

  • Thanks for sharing this. I have found the same dissonance within my own experiences and the words being used to describe same-sex relationships. My friends are in loving, stable same-sex relationships. The words used to describe their relationship make it seem like they're horrible people, or that they're doing something wrong. These things don't match- the average, pleasant, wonderful people I see and the words that make them out to be something they're not. :(

  • @xXrEMmUsXx - They are awesome, you are welcome.

  • @momofjenmatt - Likewise, my comment was not an argument either.  I was just pointing out that subjects like gay marriage are addressed intelligently by applying the principles of political philosophy instead of the feelings we derive from our personal relationships.

  • @TheSutraDude - some people are born and raised with common sense, acceptance etc... I was and I'm glad you were as well.  people are people when it comes down to it

  • @Ooglick - Thank you.  It is very sad.  I know this will change, it is leading in that direction, I just don't have the patience.

  • @momofjenmatt - That's great and yes people are people. Of all the things I've done and experienced having friends from all over the world has been the best and most enriching part of my life, by far. 

  • @momofjenmatt - I understand what you did. And please don't misunderstand Bro. Doc. I do not hate anyone for what they are or what they do. It is the lifestyle or sin that I am talking about. And Scripture is plain what is sin.
    What you wrote about your friends was very nice. And as I said I have a couple of friends that are homosexual. They know what I believe but we are still friends. So I don't hate no one just the sin. OK Bro. Doc

  • @BroDoc - I won't argue scripture with you, however plain is not the word I would use.  If all the plain scripture were followed I would be with you, but it certainly isn't.  But again, I have learned ones beliefs are theirs and I respect that, they just aren't mine or everyones.  And I'm happy I can enjoy my friendships and feel with all of my soul they are perfect in Gods eyes, all of them.

  • You are right...words are powerful. They have the ability to heal/support or wound/kill. Thank you for this post. You are fortunate to have such amazing friends. We are all more alike than we are different. We all feel the same emotions, have similar struggles...we all want to be loved and cared about...and so much more. We are all strugglers in this journey called life...so we should help make the journey easier for each other, not harder.
    HUGS!

  • Yes. Yes, yes. I don't understand people who think that denying this right to a significant portion of the population is okay. I don't understand people who say "I have gay friends but I don't think they should be able to get married." Those two things are incompatible. And I think that the only person to whom one's sexual orientation should matter is the person with whom you are having sex with.

    Wonderful post. :)

  • Great writing Laura.  I'm gonna steal your profile pic after I tag myself in it.

  • @adamswomanback - I love this comment, thank you

  • @leaflesstree - Thank you and I obviously agree!

  • @Diane Capasso - Oh Diane!  You are so awesome!

  • @ImNotUglyIJustNeedLove - And I have done that on Facebook, too much.  Tired of it.  So I decided to write a blog about the human aspect of gay people. And I threw in some real court transcript with parallels to the gay marriage argument, which were factual quotes, not emotion to tie it all together.

  • There is power in words and so many forget that judgment is not our job. I prefer tolerance and compassion (which leads to equality) over condemnation. Well done!!

  • @murisopsis - Thanks for your thoughtful and correct comment :)

  • intelligent well-thought out post

  • @bonmots - Thank you very, very much

  • yep.  indeed.  it's crazy and I'm weary of it.

  • @ImNotUglyIJustNeedLove - I don't think this post was necessarily arguing for or against gay marriage though (even though it's clear how the author feels). All the post was doing was saying that when you argue against gay marriage, you should be mindful of the hurtful language that you use that can enter the realm of derogatory.

    If you want a political argument- my take is that the government shouldn't be defining our relationships in the first place, and we shouldn't be rewarding people through tax breaks for being in a marriage. We should, of course, continue to maintain some sort of civil contract (I don't care what you call it: civil union, domestic partnership, whatever) so that people who want to unite under the law and live together, file their taxes together, share property, ensure hospital visiting rights, designate their life insurance, etc. can do so with a contract that is upheld by the courts, but marriage should be a private act that can be left for personal or religious interpretation.

    However, since the government DOES recognize and license marriages between men and women, it is discriminatory for then government not to recognize and license marriages between same sex individuals. It is also discriminatory for the government not to provide the same benefits to married gay couples that they provide to married straight couples. And it is also discriminatory to tell gay couples that while men and women can unite in marriage under the law, gay couples must be given a different label. I think the various supreme court cases that outlawed segregation made it pretty clear that separate is inherently unequal. The government providing separate labels to denote different relationships is in fact decreeing one type of relationship to be more legitimate and superior to another.

  • @sincerely_jennie - If you want to see hurtful language you should see what pro-gay marriage advocates have said and done to people like me.

    We pro-marriage advocates are routinely called hateful bigots simply for expressing our opinions.

    On the other hand, I have not seen one Christian abuse anyone for advocating gay marriage.

    What it boils down to, and you can see it in this very post, is that people who are against gay marriage are intolerant haters.

    And the people who advocate gay marriage are cool, tolerant and open minded.

  • @ImNotUglyIJustNeedLove - I understand being frustrated that because you disagree with something you consider to be " just a political difference" or being called a hater or that by practicing your religion and standing by your interpretation of scripture, you are a bigot.  That isn't fair or right.  However, I HAVE heard Christians ( in the nicest way of course) tell someone who KNOWS they were born gay, ( the same way you know you were born straight), that they are an abomination if they act on it.  

    I won't go round and round with people about religion or politics.  But I will say again, there are people and this is their identity, WHO THEY ARE.  As people, as human beings.  And they just want to live their lives, with a partner they are romantically attracted to.  Many of whom believe in Christ and consider him their personal savior.  But don't believe you can just pluck one thing out of Liviticious (  sp ) or bring up a story when in the end a man is told to rape his daughters and get them pregnant.  That is more than " you're a hater, "no I'm not, just following the bible"  this cuts into a soul saying " who you are is bad"  It has undertones " you are disgusting" " Your love isn't worthy of legal sanctions because it's bad"  THAT changes who a person is.  THAT is hurt.

  • @ImNotUglyIJustNeedLove - I can see why you feel that way, but in this case the government is legislating a very personal issue. I think it's hard to take emotion out of this argument. Because, in fact, it's not any different from the interracial marriage issue. Of course people are going to consider it bigotry when you tell them that their marriage is less legitimate than yours.

    You can say you don't hate it, or that you don't fear it. But then you follow up by saying that you just believe it's wrong. You say you don't judge it, but that we should still legislate around it. You can say that you have perfectly legitimate political and legal reasons for being in favor of "traditional marriage". But for the gay people who want to get married and who want to adopt a child, all it's going to sound like is "your relationship is not as good as my relationship." And that feels like hate.

    And here's the thing. The argument only exists within the realm of the law and government. Religions, by definition, are going to proscribe rules for morality. Of course you are going to feel judged by a religion, that's the point. I am Jewish, so many Christians will say my beliefs and practices are wrong. I am a Jew who married a non-Jew, that means that people in more conservative sects of my religion believe that my Jewish wedding was not, in fact, Jewish, and that my marriage is not a Jewish marriage. However, if I moved to Israel, while the religious authorities would tell me my Ketubah (marriage contract) isn't valid, and that my marriage isn't Jewish, they would still recognize my marriage as legally and civilly valid. It would be recognized by the state of Israel. 
    So, I will say again that the best way to "save" traditional marriage is the same way that we provide marriage equality. We simply take the government out of the equation entirely. Then your religion can have it's own stance on what makes a legitimate marriage. There are plenty of Rabbis that wouldn't have officiated my wedding because my husband isn't Jewish, and while if I think about that I would say that this is a bit hurtful, I didn't have to bother arguing about it, because I just went and found a Rabbi that WOULD marry me, and so it was live and let live. 

  • @sincerely_jennie - Taxation is also an emotional issue.  The Colonies were so emotional about it that they went to war against the greatest superpower of the day, Britain.

    But the Colonists also produced superior, well thought out reasoning that was based on centuries of political philosophy.

    The reasoning behind gay marriage is purely emotional:  Everyone who is for it is tolerant and open minded.  Everyone who is against it is a bigot.

    Once gay marriage becomes legalized, religious freedom and freedom of speech will disappear since gay marriage and the 1st Amendment are incompatible.

  • @ImNotUglyIJustNeedLove - Of course it was an emotional issue! And while there were lots of well-thought political writings, they were also peppered with some pretty mean-spirited jabs at the Brits!

    The reasoning behind gay marriage is absolutely political. The government recognizes and provides benefits to one type of relationship, but not another. Gay people are being treated differently under the law. No reason to bring people or bigotry into the argument at all. 

    Allowing gay people to be married under the law, and allowing their relationship to be recognized in the same way that heterosexual relationships are recognized under the law does NOT infringe on your religious freedom. You are still free to believe that gay marriages aren't legitimate or "real" marriages, and Priests, Pastors, Rabbis, and ship captains, can still freely refuse to marry people of the same gender. A judge, however, as an agent of the government, would not be allowed to refuse to marry two people of the same gender. That's what the change would mean (even better would be if we took the government out of marriage altogether and just produced civil contracts between people for legal reasons... then you can go get married under whatever religious umbrella exists and your marriage is purely a private union). 

    Gay marriage, furthermore, does not at all infringe on your right to free speech. So I am not even sure what the heck you are talking about.

    Let's look at the text of the first amendment, shall we?
    1. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;
    Wouldn't an amendment to the constitution that defines marriage as being a union between a man and a woman actually BE the establishment of religion. Some religions believe that this is the definition of marriage, but the government cannot establish that in law. Congress would not be establishing a religion by saying that gay relationships should be treated the same under the law. In fact, the government would be getting rid of a religious definition of marriage. Your religion would still be free to deem homosexual marriages illegitimate under that religion. Just like conservative and orthodox Jews can tell me that my marriage is not a Jewish or proper marriage, since I married a non-Jew. However, they cannot tell me that my marriage is not a legitimate CIVIL marriage.
    2. or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press;
    Gay marriage does not infringe on your right to express your opinion on gay marriage, nor does it interfere with freedom of the press. 
    3. or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. 
    If gay marriage is made legal, you would still have the right to assemble and protest this change, if you so choose.
    I am not sure AT ALL how these are incompatible. Even if you religiously believe that gay people should not be allowed to marry, you cannot say that by the government allowing gay people to marry, they are forcing you into that religion. Is the government forcing you to marry gay people? Is the government forcing you to tell your children that they are allowed to marry someone of the same gender? No! The government is allowing people with different beliefs than you (people who believe that gay marriage is OK) to practice THEIR beliefs without discrimination.
    But, again, THE BEST THING WOULD BE TO JUST ERADICATE THE INSTITUTION OF MARRIAGE AS A CIVIL INSTITUTION. Then marriage and its definitions would be completely personal and religious. Why aren't more people on board with this idea? Why are we letting the government define and license our personal relationships and religious marriages in the first place? Weirdest thing: I got married in December and my marriage certificate says that I got married in a religious ceremony. Why does it say that? Why does that matter to the government in the first place?

  • @sincerely_jennie -"The government recognizes and provides benefits to one type of relationship, but not another."   

    In that case marriage must be redefined to include every possible sexual preference.

    Are you okay with that?  

    Or is homosexuality superior to all other non-heterosexual sexual preferences.

  • Well first of all, I didn't say anything about sex or sexual preferences. I am talking about civil relationships where two people decide to commit to each other and establish as social contract in which they share property, have hospital visitation and end-of-life rights, etc.

    But, trying to wrap my head around your question and not dodge it...yes, I believe that the government should allow unions between people no matter their sexual preferences and no matter the race, gender, or religion of each person. I am not sure what sort of kinky sexual preferences you are dreaming up, but let me try an think of where I would find exception to this rule...
    1. Non-consensual relationships- since the government would be respecting the rights of one citizen over another (the non-consensual partner). This is includes relationships with minors (a 40 year-old cannot marry a 12-year old), since the minor is not a consenting adult. So this takes care of rapists and pedophiles. 
    2. Relationships between men/women and animals. Since animals are non US citizens, I don't see how we can include them in civil contracts.
    What I could see as being acceptable: 
    1. Polygamous or Poly amorous unions- I can't see why we shouldn't allow groups of people to unite under civil marriage contracts if they want to share property, etc.- who are we to stop them?
    2.  Relationships between relatives- Don't get me wrong. I get this one is controversial. But let's take the sex out of marriage, shall we, because when it comes to the law we are simply talking about a civil contract. If two spinster sisters want to unite under the law for taxation purposes and to ensure proper inheretence/make things a little easier for shared property. Then why not? 
    This does NOT mean that I condone incest. I am not talking about laws against incest. There are good reasons for those laws, not the least of which because incestuous relationships are A. Often non-consensual and B. can produce offspring with all sorts of health issues. So, if a woman is in love with their brother then, yes, I guess they should be allowed to marry, but that wouldn't mean they were allowed to have sex. Incest laws would remain intact. But that's the same way it is now. We no longer have laws against homosexual sex because those laws infringe on privacy, but we still have laws against incest because it is dangerous!
    Are there specific sexual preferences to which you are referring that I didn't touch on here?

  • I love your insight @momofjennmatt.  I'm thinking I should move away from my Southeast Kansas archaic thinkers to the Chicago area so I can be around like-minded people!  This part of the world drives me INSANE!!

    @sincerely_jennie I absolutely LOVE all of your arguments!  I completely agree with you about it all, but even if someone didn't agree, they would have to at least listen to your valid points!

  • @Gabrielle Rose Swanwick@facebook - Thank you! I usually try to stay out of public debates like this unless I have heard enough arguments for both sides to develop a well-though-out stance for one side or another. This is something I have thought very hard about and I I'm glad you see my reasoning. I know that it's important for people to hear logical arguments for both sides, and I myself have heard great arguments for the pro-traditional marriage side, though I still think that the best solution for those arguments would be to get rid of the idea of legal marriage altogether.

  • @Gabrielle Rose Swanwick@facebook - Thanks so much.  Moving sounds drastic but then again????  

  • Fantastic post! Your friends are as lucky to have you as you are to have them.

    And the parallels to interracial marriages are VERY accurate and appropriate, because it is not any different. The people telling you why gay marriage is wrong today are the very same who would tell you interracial marriage was wrong before it was legalized. They'd use Biblical references to stories like the Tower of Babel. No one wants to admit they'd be that narrow minded now, but you know how that saying goes- "The words have changed, but the song remains the same."

  • Wonderfully written; of course, you will probably be preaching to the already converted. The good news is, there has been a tremendous change of opinion on this issue in just the last decade. Certainly, when I met my husband 13+ years ago, we never considered that we would one day be able to marry.

    I suspect another decade or two from now, we will look back at the arguments made against same-sex marriage with just as much dismay as we look at the arguments made against inter-racial marriage.

  • @Midnight_Masochist - Thank you and I LOVE the quote at the end.

    @christao408 - The tide is changing.  Just waiting for the ignorant to die since may are like 100 years old :)

  • Wow - probably the most eloquent posting about the subject of Gay Marriage I have yet to read anywhere.

    Here in the UK, where we don't have the complication of many States being able to decide their own legislation, it looks like being enshrined in law fairly soon, albeit with the proviso that no one, no religious organisation, is obliged to perform the ceremonies if they don't want to. I don't have a problem with that.

    I am 100% certain that within a decade it will cease to be an issue, other than with a minority who will never accept it, just as there remains a minority who deplore interracial unions.

    I do fear the creep of racism, though. Parts of the press in Britain are feeding on the unfounded fears of the population regarding immigration. They peddle untruths as fact and are only challenged by the other parts of the press that do not have such a large organisation. I hear colleagues spouting rubbish that they clearly believe.

    Not sure what's going to happen there.

  • @holeinyoursoul - Thank you!!!  how flattering!  I couldn't agree more with your other assessments. The tide is turning and not everyone will like that but...

  • Well put together and enjoyable.. It would have been more so if it did not reveal that vein of truth through it. Well done.

  • @Lovegrove - I'm sorry for replying like a month late with this.  I rarely come here anymore, but I'm here now and appreciate your comment, thank you

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